DC and culture

Post any Detective Conan news, events, questions, and the like about the anime, manga, movies, or OVAs that don't belong elsewhere here.
kaitoushinichi
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Re: DC and culture

Postby kaitoushinichi » January 23rd, 2010, 11:32 pm

c-square wrote:
mangaluva wrote:Random new question, but it just popped into my head; Why does nobody wear their seatbelt in Japan? You often see the driver and passenger buckling up, but nobody ever seems to put on their seatbelt in the back seats of cars. I mean, you can get pulled over for that in the UK. It's seriously dangerous- I mean, getting thrown forwards into the seats isn't as bad as getting thrown into the windscreen, but if the car rolls then you're utterly screwed. Why does nobody buckle up in Japan?


Good question!  I didn't remember much about it, but I asked my wife and she said that she can't remember anybody but her buckling up in the back seat.  It seems like the back seat belts are simply viewed as being optional.  I did some quick research and found an article stating it was only in 2008 that it became law for people to buckle up in the back seat, and that's only on expressways.  On regular roads, it's still optional.  At the time the article was written "On regular roads, 95 percent of drivers and 86 percent of front-seat passengers were found to be wearing belts... The same was true of only about 8 percent of those in back."


Up until a few years ago, it wasn't really an enforced law to buckle up in the back seat. I was pretty surprised when my aunt came to pick us up from the airport the first time I visited, because the seatbelts in the back weren't working very well, and she was just like "Oh, don't bother with that."
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » January 24th, 2010, 12:21 am

c-square wrote:At the time the article was written "On regular roads, 95 percent of drivers and 86 percent of front-seat passengers were found to be wearing belts... The same was true of only about 8 percent of those in back."

I was about to post that Gin and Vodka don't seem to wear their seat belts, but then I checked the revive opening and was shocked to discover Gin is indeed wearing his. I would have sworn they didn't, so now I am going to go off on a near pointless crusade to see if the MiB follow seatbelt laws. brb

In the manga (finished!)
178: It's hard to tell if Gin (D) has his seatbelt on.
239: Naughty Gin (D). Vodka (FP) isn't clear enough to tell.
242: Gin (FP) and Vodka (D) seem to be breaking the laws.
382: Vodka (D) is wearing his. Unbelievable. Maybe it is because Gin isn't around to be a bad influence on him.
419: Akai (D) is belted.
420: The chapter quality stinks but I think Akai (D) is wearing his. It's hard to tell.
421: Yep Akai is wearing his. A cookie for him.
429: It is hard to tell but Gin (D) may be wearing his for once, but it's the same chance those are just folds in his coat. Vodka (FP), maybe not.
431: Vermouth (D) as Araide is wearing hers. Jodie (D) and Conan as Ai (FP) wear theirs as well.
432: Same as 431
434: Gin (D) continues his lawless streak. Vermouth doesn't put hers or Conan's on when she flees but I can't count it against her. Agasa (D) wears his. I can't tell about G and V the second time we see them...
500: A gold medal for Hidemi (D). Conan (FP) and Agasa (D) wear theirs. A fail for Gin (FP) and Chianti (D).
501: Unchanged from 500, except that I think Korn (FP) is not wearing his either.
502: Good going James Black (D)! A star for Jodie too (FP).
503: With his black outfit, it is hard to tell about Vodka (D) but I doubt it. Gin (FP) fails. James Black (D) has his on but Jodie removes hers so she can train a gun on Kir which is a reasonable excuse I suppose.
504: It's too hard to tell.
553: None of the Org on the road are wearing theirs. Vodka (D), Gin (FP), Chianti (D), Korn (FP).
555: Vodka (D) seems to be wearing his while his bro Gin (FP) isn't.
596: Jodie (D) and Conan (FP) for shame! James Black (D) though wins a gold medal.
598: Kusuda Rikumichi (D) nope, Akai (D) nope, Conan (FP) nope - but James Black and jodie seem to be wearing theirs.
599: Vodka (D), Gin (FP), and Vermouth (BP) are unbuckled
601: Camel (D) is belted as is Jodie (FP)
602: Vodka (D) and Gin (FP) are breaking the law.
603: Camel (D) is belted and Akai (D) has his on to, but Conan (FP) doesn't seem to. Bad role model, Conan.
605: I can't tell for sure but I'm going to bet Vodka (D) and Gin (FP) aren't wearing theirs. I can't tell if Kir is.
609: Not sure about G or V in this chap.
700: Neither Vodka (D) nor Gin (FP) are wearing a seatbelt.
779: Jodie (FP) and James (D) superbly secure their seats to their seats.
797: Amuro (D) believes safety is central to a healthy evil detective lifestyle.
799/800: Okiya (D) as Agasa (FP) safely strap themselves in, but naughty little Ai in the back appears not to be wearing hers.
799/800: Amuro (D) and Ran (FP) are buckled up. Amuro had to tell Kogoro to put his on so he wouldn't wash the car windows in his own blood.
811: Okiya (D) buckles up, but Conan and Haibs in the back do not.
818: Gin (FP) and Vodka(D) seem to have forgotten their belts on their trip to some probably important location. Lately, we seem to only ever catch them driving, never eating out or anything... Maybe they live in the Porsche because the recession means Tokyo rent is too damn high?
827: Amuro (D) is buckled up!
852: Amuro (D) and Vermouth (FP) choose to comply with the law.

Anime (done!)
129: Too hard to tell about Gin (D). He is in shadow.
176: Gin (D) and Vodka (D) add to their criminal records.
178: That's a negative on the seat belts for Vodka (D) and Gin (FP).
310: Vodka (D) seems to be wearing his...
336: Akai (D) is not wearing his despite doing so in the manga chapter...
338: Shuu (D) is good this time around.
345: That's a seatbelt for Shuuichi (D), Conan (FP), and Jodie (D). Pretty sure Gin (D) and Vodka (FP) are once again breaking the law.
425: Kir (D), Agasa (D), Conan (FP), Jodie (D & FP), James Black (D) are legal. Gin (FP), Vodka (D), Chianti (D), and Korn (FP) all are illegal. Vermouth (BP) isn't wearing hers. Jodie (BP), and Ai (BP) doesn't wear theirs in the backseat. Jodie (FP) doesn't take hers off to aim her gun at Kir this time.
464: Vodka (D) is buckled up. Gin (FP) is questionable. I can't tell if the straps on Chianti (D) and Korn (FP) are their sniper rifle packs or belts. The belts go opposite the usual configuration and they don't match the manga.
Ai wa te saguri no kurayami no naka de opening: Akai (D) wears his.
495: Jodie (D) and Conan (FP) get gold stars. James Black (D) gets one to, but Jodie is wearing hers even as a back passenger! Conan though as a back passenger seems not to have his on though.
497: Hell has frozen over! Vodka (D) and Gin (FP) are wearing one! This was not in the manga! Kusuda Rikumichi (D), Akai (D), and Conan (FP) are legal too. James Black (D) and Jodie (FP) are buckled up as well. Even Akemi (D) has hers on. There must have been some sort of edict to the animators to up seatbelt compliance.
498: Camel (D and BP) and Jodie (D and FP) are sporting their safety.
499: Camel (D), Kir (FP), Akai (D), and Conan (FP) wear their belts. Anime Vodka (D) and Gin (D) continue to belt themselves as well defying their paper counterparts.
500: Gin (D) bad. Camel (D), Hidemi (FP), Akai (D), and Conan (FP) good.
504: Kir (D) is legal. Akai (D) isn't wearing his belt. Maybe that's to be expected since he needs to scramble eventually, but he is only on the way there... Jodie (D) buckles up.
579: Gin (FP) and Vodka (D) are safely secured while driving. Gin took his off while parked.
651: Jodie and James buckle up on their way to rescue Camel.
671: Everyone in the Amuro's (D) car seems to be buckled, even Ran and Kogoro in the backseat. It isn't possible to tell if Conan is buckled though.
672-673: Okiya (D) and Agasa (FP) demonstrate how to put on a seatbelt. It is unclear if Haibara got the message.
674: Okiya(D) takes off his seatbelt and ties it around the door handle to stabilize himself while shooting, something that wasn't in the manga. Since Kogoro (BP) was already wearing his seatbelt, instead of telling him to fasten it like in the manga, Amuro (D) tells him to stay buckled and sit tight.
684-685: Okiya (D) and Conan (BP) and Ai (BP) wear their seatbelts.
701: Gin (FP) and Vodka (D) are both strapped down.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on July 31st, 2013, 3:17 am, edited 15 times in total.
Abs.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Abs. » January 24th, 2010, 12:22 am

I thought it was only in the liberal states in the US where it was mandatory to wear seatbelts in the back seat.  Am I wrong?
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » January 24th, 2010, 12:28 am

Abs. wrote:I thought it was only in the liberal states in the US where it was mandatory to wear seatbelts in the back seat.  Am I wrong?

It's mandatory in New York. There aren't any seatbelt laws in New Hampshire which is liberal, but perhaps not as much as the surrounding states. I'll look for that too while I evaluate the Organization's seatbelt usage.  ;)
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Re: DC and culture

Postby kkslider5552000 » January 24th, 2010, 1:45 am

something about Gin wearing his seatbelt is hilarious

I bet Vodka made him. He's worried about Gin.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby scineram » January 24th, 2010, 1:47 am

Never wear them. Except maybe long distance and front seat.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby mangaluva » January 24th, 2010, 7:56 am

In the UK you can get pulled over for not wearing seatbelts in the front, and while it's not absolutely mandatory in the back (I think), you do have to buckle up under-16s. For some cars you need special seatbelts for small children and baby seats. There's a major buckle-up campaign going on right now, which includes showing this certain video to schools. It comes from a camera placed in the dashboard of a guy who was pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt while driving (they put these cameras in so they can catch repeat offenders). In this case, the guy crashed and watching him get flung around the car as it rolled, including into the backseat with his head at an... interesting... angle... umm, we all buckle up after watching that one.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Callid » January 24th, 2010, 8:36 am

Abs. wrote:I thought it was only in the liberal states in the US where it was mandatory to wear seatbelts in the back seat.  Am I wrong?

In Germany, the laws are very strict. You have to always wear a seatbelt, in the back as well, and until you get 12 years old (or reach 150cm), you may not sit in the front and have to use a child safety seat, if I recall it right.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Kor » January 24th, 2010, 9:04 am

Callid wrote:In Germany, the laws are very strict. You have to always wear a seatbelt, in the back as well, and until you get 12 years old (or reach 150cm), you may not sit in the front and have to use a child safety seat, if I recall it right.


The same applies to Israel. Do I wear seatbelts all the time if I happen to sit in the back...no... :o
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » January 24th, 2010, 7:26 pm

I finished the Syndicate seatbelt compliance check. See it up above and tell me if I missed someone! ;D In the manga, The Org characters don't seem to buckle up in general, with the exception of Vermouth and Kir. The FBI has very good seat belt compliance on the other hand. The anime matched this at first, but then decided in Red vs. Black that even the bad characters should wear theirs. In the manga, Vodka seem to only wear his when Gin isn't around. Maybe he feel like he needs to be more edgy in order to impress his aniki? Backseat compliance seems to usually be bad on all sides with occasional gold stars. James Black and Camel are good about their belts.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby kholoudsafir » February 3rd, 2010, 3:05 pm

Now another thing ( we can see this in other animes as well).

I totally know and understand that people from different cultures use suffixes for respect, especially in the Eastern cutures, in addressing who are older than us, not necessarily old as an elderly, for example my younger brothers in law add a suffix which means 'sister' when they talk to me even the one who is only 3 years younger than me, so far similar to Japanese.

On the other hand, westerns as well as in other cultures use family names in formal relationships, but at least work colleagues use first names without adding a suffix, and here the difference with Japan starts.

but, the main thing in this matter, which I do not know if exists in other cultures is the school children , especially the small ones use the suffixes when they address each others, or adults using them when they talk to children. When I started watching the subbed version of DC, I thought that these suffixes were part of the original names.

It seems to me that if you are Japanese that you will be likely called with your first name, without any suffixes by a limited number of people, If we take Shinichi, only Agasa, parents, and Ran  call him with his first name. Ran is the same, parents, Shinichi and Sonoko.

questions:

- Would it be an insult to use a person's first name without a permission, like class mates? I wonder if c-square has a good story about this, when he went to Japan, how he managed to attach the appropriate suffix each time  .

- Do Japanese who live outside Japan do that, this strictly ???

- what is the rule in using each suffix, like the ones coming to my head now: kun
chan( trying to guess if it is for girls only?)
neechan
sama (another guess, but is for respect to whom are in higher rank),
san ( I thought it was more formal than chan, since Ai wanted the DBs to use it addressing her then allowed Ayumi to use chan, but it leads me to ask, why shinichi has used Mouri-san instead of Ran-chan when they were small) and  I thought that it is used with family names only, until it was said Ran-san

- Heiji and Shinichi use family names, but without suffixes, why they do not use their first names?
  when they call each others??

I have been thinking about these things, especially after movie 7, when Kazuha asked Conan why he called Heiji as Hattori? is it because he did not use the suffix with the family name.
It looks to me that adding the suffixes is something automatic that people do without thinking, even in the moments of danger, like Conan's answer' was taken by the moment'. 
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Misztina » February 3rd, 2010, 3:51 pm

I'm not an expert in this field, but in Hattori's and Kudo's case I think the lack of suffix kinda shows their equality. It is like accepting the other on the same level perhaps. It is not too personal like Heiji and Shinichi, but not formal either.

I could be wrong though. ^^"
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Re: DC and culture

Postby mangaluva » February 3rd, 2010, 4:21 pm

kholoudsafir wrote:Now another thing ( we can see this in other animes as well).

I totally know and understand that people from different cultures use suffixes for respect, especially in the Eastern cutures, in addressing who are older than us, not necessarily old as an elderly, for example my younger brothers in law add a suffix which means 'sister' when they talk to me even the one who is only 3 years younger than me, so far similar to Japanese.

On the other hand, westerns as well as in other cultures use family names in formal relationships, but at least work colleagues use first names without adding a suffix, and here the difference with Japan starts.

but, the main thing in this matter, which I do not know if exists in other cultures is the school children , especially the small ones use the suffixes when they address each others, or adults using them when they talk to children. When I started watching the subbed version of DC, I thought that these suffixes were part of the original names.

It seems to me that if you are Japanese that you will be likely called with your first name, without any suffixes by a limited number of people, If we take Shinichi, only Agasa, parents, and Ran  call him with his first name. Ran is the same, parents, Shinichi and Sonoko.

questions:

- Would it be an insult to use a person's first name without a permission, like class mates? I wonder if c-square has a good story about this, when he went to Japan, how he managed to attach the appropriate suffix each time  .

- Do Japanese who live outside Japan do that, this strictly ???

- what is the rule in using each suffix, like the ones coming to my head now: kun
chan( trying to guess if it is for girls only?)
neechan
sama (another guess, but is for respect to whom are in higher rank),
san ( I thought it was more formal than chan, since Ai wanted the DBs to use it addressing her then allowed Ayumi to use chan, but it leads me to ask, why shinichi has used Mouri-san instead of Ran-chan when they were small) and  I thought that it is used with family names only, until it was said Ran-san

- Heiji and Shinichi use family names, but without suffixes, why they do not use their first names?
  when they call each others??

I have been thinking about these things, especially after movie 7, when Kazuha asked Conan why he called Heiji as Hattori? is it because he did not use the suffix with the family name.
It looks to me that adding the suffixes is something automatic that people do without thinking, even in the moments of danger, like Conan's answer' was taken by the moment'. 




There were a lot of notes about this kind of thing in the Furuba manga, and as I recall-

students and children generally address each other by surname only, adding "-san" for girls, and girls sometimes add "-kun" to guys (like a new girl might address Heiji as "Hattori" or "Hattori-kun", and he'd call her "Higurashi-san" or whatever.) Girls who are friends tend to add "-chan", either to their first name or surname. Guys tend to stick to surnames only, though they'll sometimes add "kun" to guys they're close friends with or use their forename and "kun". Girls can be "kun" and boys can be "chan", but that tends to be a personal preference and permission. Using the forename without any suffix at all really only ever happens with personal permission; it's a sign of extreme closeness (which is why, as kids, Shinichi and Ran got teased for calling each other by their forenames alone; it was tantamount to saying they were dating, a horrible thing for a seven-year-old XDXD) To use someone's forename without permission is generally perceived as being far too over-familar; it's sort of like walking up to someone you've just met and french kissing them.

Teenagers and adults often add "chan" to all young children's names, or "kun" to boys who like to act older than they are.

"sama" and "dono" both indicate rank, but these days they're largely used in shops (the equivalent of the person behind the counter calling you "sir" or "madam")

"neechan", when used by children, generally means older girls and teenagers, to a teenager will mean older teenagers or someone in her twenties, but to older and middle-aged adults generally means younger women (in the second movie, Kogoro addresses Osai Nana as "neechan"). Same for niichan for guys. Oji-san and Oba-san solely indicate middle-aged people or actual uncles and aunts, and obaa-san and ojii-san solely indicate old people and actual grandparents.

"San" is fairly general, the equivalent of "Mr" or "Mrs"; It's fairly default among adults, and the example you gave was explained above; Shinichi wanted to maintain the school etiquette, which demanded that he address Ran as "Mori-san" and she address him as "Kudo" or "Kudo-kun".

I don't know about Japanese living outside of Japan. I'd imagine they'd maintain the etiquette when talking to other Japanese, but I don't know about when speaking other languages and interacting with foreigners. I suppose they'd probably just be really polite (I've only met one Japanese guy living in Scotland, and he's lived here since he was a baby, so he's never really lived in a Japanese society).

Yes, the "Hattori-Kudo" thing is an indication that they're familiar peers, basically. If they were less familair, they'd use "kun" or even "san".

Yes, the difference in address was noticeable, mainly because it indicated an equality. When it comes to young children, adults generally address them by their forename with "chan" or "kun" attached ("Conan-kun") and children will similarly call teenagers that they're familiar with by their forename with "niichan" or "neechan" attached. They'll generally still call adults and older teenagers that they don't know well by their surname and "san".

It's pretty complicated and really it's easiest to pick up by reading a lot of manga where the suffixes are even left in the english version, like Furuba. Hope this helps. ^_^
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Re: DC and culture

Postby Abs. » February 3rd, 2010, 4:25 pm

It's familiarity, in-group vs. out-group, and station (usually age, but can be boss-subordinate, etc.).

-kun: For boys, or (mostly used by men, but this may be a function of the higher positions often being occupied by men) for those lower than yourself
-chan: Often used in conjunction with a person's given name, for people you are really, REALLY familiar with.  Mostly females, but males are often called -chan by their girlfriends or mothers, for example (but they DO NOT like it  ;D).
-neechan is literally "older sister" and is used by children to refer to an older-sister type of person (very close relationship).
-sama: For those in a prestigious position, or to indicate that you hold someone in very high regard.
-san: Anyone else you aren't sure about.  A "catch-all."
-senpai: Used for an upperclassman, or someone who has seniority over you in a given profession (but not someone of a higher rank)
-sensei: Used for people in prestigious occupations, such as teacher & lawyer (use the shortcut: someone you hold in high regard and can learn something from)

Family name vs. Given name
The standard is to call someone by their family name, with the appropriate suffix.  The easy way to think of this is to think in military terms. 

In the military, you will always address someone of higher rank by their rank, followed by their last name.  You will sometimes call someone of equal or lower rank by just their last name.  If you are buddies with someone, you may call them by their first name, but not in front of others unless it is a casual situation (you're chillin' at the club and having a few beers) - but your doing so will alert others to the closeness of your relationship with the person... and sometimes that is in bad taste.




Yes, Japanese who live outside Japan do it.  If they are speaking Japanese.  To Japanese people.

For the Japanese, it's not really seen as a "suffix" - it's almost as if it was part of their name.  You don't remember the suffix separately from the name.

Foreigners in Japan are allowed a hell of a lot of leeway - the Japanese realize you are too stupid to know the proper suffix and will allow you to get away with pretty much anything.  HINT: LASTNAME-san for anyone you aren't sure about.
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Re: DC and culture

Postby c-square » February 3rd, 2010, 10:30 pm

kholoudsafir wrote:- Would it be an insult to use a person's first name without a permission, like class mates? I wonder if c-square has a good story about this, when he went to Japan, how he managed to attach the appropriate suffix each time   .


These are great questions.  One could write a PhD thesis on the origins and etiquette of name suffixes (sufficies?) and still not cover everything.  I do have to say that both mangaluva and Abs. have done a really great job of explaining it.  I especially like the comparison to the military.  I had never thought about it that way before, but it fits quite well.  Just keep in mind that the motivation is slightly different between the two scenarios.  Luckily, proper naming conventions was one of the first things I was taught in Japanese class, so I don't have any stories about making mistakes.  The closest thing I can think of is how my host-sister who was 3-years-old at the time always used '-chan' with me, even though I was a young man.  Everyone found it so funny it kind of stuck as a nickname for me.

A few more thoughts on this topic:
'-chan' is often used for pets as well.  It has a cute, diminutive feel to it.
'-kun' is often used for girls who are tomboys.  You hear Megure Keibu call Ran, Ran-kun instead of Ran-chan because (IMHO) he's trying to show respect for her responsible nature and kick-ass karate skills.
'kimi' is often used for really young kids, or to a lady with whom you are very familiar
'anata' means you, and can be used in formal situations to talk about someone else.  But 'anata' has another usage, mainly for a wife to call her husband.  In that case, it's a very close and respectful term.

Finally, you'll notice that, even though they're now dating, Sato-san and Takagi-kun are still refer to each other by last name.  It probably won't be until their engaged that Takagi starts calling Sato-san Miwako (though maybe not, as she's still his sempai (see Abs. explanation above)).  Sato probably will never refer Takagi as Wataru, instead just jumping straight to anata once they get married.
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