Shinichi+Ran

[Divinely Ethereal]

I'm sorry, but the popularity of this pairing has me concerned. I know that the majority of you are probably not Guardian-reading Liberal feminist types, but anyone with even a semblance of Western background/education should be ticked off at the frankly insulting portrayal of a so-called "idealistic" romance that subscribes to toxic patriarchal norms. The "pure", motherly/nurturing, endlessly devoted/faithful chick who sits at home waiting for her "Samurai" champion to come home, when said champion is a selfish bastard who keeps lying to her and won't let her go... well, what exactly is the allure of such an unequal relationship? I would have much respect for Ran if she stopped weeping like a daft ninny for two seconds and decided to go out once with someone else, if only to make him jealous, like, you know, what a normal functioning teenage girl would do, but it appears Ran has no self-respect. And when they're married, what then? She just sits home making dinner and popping out/looking after brats while he goes off solving cases? Because she's clearly  not even a cool, adventuress type like Yukiko who loves travelling and getting some action. I don't understand why Gosho would want Kudo to shackle himself to such a needy, clingy over-sensitive brat, especially since he prides himself on being a Holmes fanatic. If he really wanted to be like Holmes, he'd swear off women altogether. Kudo has absolutely no credibility as a Heisei Holmes, and the climax of the Holmes Arc was a complete joke.

[Schillok]

The "pure", motherly/nurturing, endlessly devoted/faithful chick who sits at home waiting for her "Samurai" champion to come home, when said champion is a selfish bastard who keeps lying to her and won't let her go... well, what exactly is the allure of such an unequal relationship? I would have much respect for Ran if she stopped weeping like a daft ninny for two seconds and decided to go out once with someone else, if only to make him jealous, like, you know, what a normal functioning teenage girl would do, but it appears Ran has no self-respect. And when they're married, what then? She just sits home making dinner and popping out/looking after brats while he goes off solving cases? Because she's clearly  not even a cool, adventuress type like Yukiko who loves travelling and getting some action.

Why should she become a housewife?
I know, one of the major weaknesses in DC is the lack of characterization of the (non-adult) female cast. We hardly know anything about Ran herself, only from times when she is together with Shinichi. Which career does she aspire. She doesn't seem to be interested in law (like her mother) or solving crimes (like her father), but that doesn't mean she has no idea of what she wants to become in the future. The reader just doesn't know, so the lack of her interests leads to the "she becomes a housewife" conclusion.
Actually, this is not only true for Ran, but for Kazuha and Sonoko as well. Even for Haibara we do not know what would become of her if she were able to return being Shiho without danger from the BO. Ayumi might be least effected by this - for one she is still too young to have decided on her future occupation, for the other her constant interaction with the police officers makes it easier to imagine that she might chose to become one in the future as well.

Don't get me wrong: There is a point in your argument. Their interests ARE quite different and they might run in trouble when married and their "love" isn't enough to keep them together anymore. Still, there is no way predicting if they would just fall apart (like Eri-Kogoro) or will be able to overcome that obstacle.

But Ran is not a desperate whinny princess waiting obediently for her prince. She just has no interest in anyone else at the moment - and is in love with Shinichi if we believe that confession of hers early in the series. Why should she date a guy she doesn't even like, when there is Shinichi who at least calls her regularly (and only her) and despite not being able to tell her when he will be able to return is clearly missing her?
He is only gone for a few month now. Of course once this period gets longer (and Conan has to accept that there is no way back to become Shinichi - which would never happen the way the manga works) these feelings might finally decay and she would become open to other possible partners. Maybe someone who shares more of her interests.

I don't understand why Gosho would want Kudo to shackle himself to such a needy, clingy over-sensitive brat, especially since he prides himself on being a Holmes fanatic. If he really wanted to be like Holmes, he'd swear off women altogether. Kudo has absolutely no credibility as a Heisei Holmes, and the climax of the Holmes Arc was a complete joke.

I don't think Shinichi wants to be like Holmes - not entirely. He should know that Holmes also had some bad characteristics that are not worth trying to aquire - is addiction to narcotics or disregard for anything not related to solving crimes. Shinichi knows that the earth orbits the sun.
Since he already likes (loves?) Ran, he likely won't swear of woman. Maybe prioritize them less than other humans would, but he is able to fall in love.

[/quote]

[Dwalin]

I would have much respect for Ran if she stopped weeping like a daft ninny for two seconds and decided to go out once with someone else, if only to make him jealous, like, you know, what a normal functioning teenage girl would do

Unfortunately, today it is considered normal for "normal functioning teenage people" to go out with more than one person and to use others to make jealous somebody else. Many people think there is nothing wrong in being like animals and are not able to understand the value of the concept of faithfulness.

[Divinely Ethereal]

Thanks for the reply, Schillok

But Ran is not a desperate whinny princess waiting obediently for her prince.

She was exactly that in the school play, if only it was only acting. I still think she's a moron. Case in point: She didn't take down a criminal because a fortune cookie told her Kudo wouldn't like it! That was legit. retarded, and awfully embarrassing to watch for a long-term viewer like myself.

Actually, this is not only true for Ran, but for Kazuha and Sonoko as well

Unfortunately, we know from the little side story to Movie 14 that Kazuha wants a (more specifically Heiji's) BABY, which doesn't really help the argument that these seventeen-year-old girls have their life priorities straight, at least where Gosho and his anime staff are standing.

  He is only gone for a few month now. Of course once this period gets longer (and Conan has to accept that there is no way back to become Shinichi - which would never happen the way the manga works) these feelings might finally decay and she would become open to other possible partners. Maybe someone who shares more of her interests.

MOST unfortunately, this fragile hope of ours doesn't hold true in light of OVA 9, where Ran would rather remain a pathetic spinster than move on with someone who is NOT Shinichi. Of course, it's all in Kudo's head( and even in his own head he wouldn't let her go, the despicable bastard), but Gosho and his staff are even more despicable if they believe Ran becoming Miss Havisham is not only acceptable but the proper way to go in an alternate what-if-he-doesn't-come-back scenario.

I'm not sure if the whole gender stereotyping/sexism thing in DC is a Gosho&co thing, or a Japanese culture thing (and you're welcome to speculate with me) but things that I've noticed that have offended my sensibilities/sent wrong messages:

-If you're a serious/no-nonsense,  responsible ,extremely intelligent/studious, career-driven girl like Eri, you'll end up with a loser like Kogoro while if you're a frivolus, playful, bat-your-lashes type like Yukiko/Sonoko, or a pretty, naive simple-minded gal like Ran/Kazuha/Aoko/Akemi you'll end up with the 'cool' guys (Kudo Sr and Jr, Hattori, Kaito, Makoto and Akai). Trope *slightly* subverted by Satou/Takagi, but not really, because Takagi still isn't exactly the "cool" guy/ most eligible bachelor type, and at least him and Satou are co-workers for a change.

-Conan's sexism when it comes to Haibara:
a) Conan in one episode tells her : "Oh, so I guess you CAN say girly things after all".
b)Conan going "Haibara?!Na!" to his mum. He figures Haibara doesn't like him because she has no overwhelming urge to talk about her feelings, or make goo-goo eyes at him, or cry, or say his name in an annoying breathy way; he seems to operate under the misconception that these are the symptoms that would be displayed by a "proper" girl with a crush on his person.
c)Conan doesn't do anything to actively discourage Ayumi's crush on him, yet when Mitsuhiko shows interest in Haibara, he jumps in to tell him not to go for it because "she is too difficult". It's not about the age difference; it's because Kudo is not comfortable with  the kind of 'female' Haibara represents, and expects the world's entire male population to agree with his sentiment. Come to think of it, he displays discomfort with any female who appears to be too independent-minded and/or has a big personality like Eri and his own mother. He would probably put the latter two in the "too difficult" box as well.

You're right about Sherlock, of course. He was not meant to be an idealistic, likeable type. Sometimes, I wonder if Gosho has even read the same source material I did. My innerHolmes fan rebelled at Kudo self-righteously declaring to Ray Curtis that "drugs and murder are foul and without excuse", because that is not something canon!Holmes would have been able to claim in good conscience, since, as you said, he was into recreative drug use.  I guess that's why my favourite anime detective is "L", not Kudo. His mild autism and moral relativity is much more characteristic of genius detective types than Kudo's high school vapidness.

Ending Note: I'm a huge BBC!Sherlock fan. I'd like to imagine that in a cross-over with DC, he'd punch Kudo, insult Ran and adopt Haibara

[Divinely Ethereal]

Unfortunately, today it is considered normal for "normal functioning teenage people" to go out with more than one person and to use others to make jealous somebody else. Many people think there is nothing wrong in being like animals and are not able to understand the value of the concept of faithfulness

Don't be daft.  It's part of growing up. You cannot be expected to commit yourself unless you've been out in the real world long enough to know what's best for you.  "Animals"?!WTF! How old are you?

[Dwalin]

MOST unfortunately, this fragile hope of ours doesn't hold true in light of OVA 9, where Ran would rather remain a pathetic spinster than move on with someone who is NOT Shinichi.

YOU sound pathetic, not people or characters like Ran who know what faithfulness is. There is nothing pathetic in remaining faithful to the person one loves. Or do you feel that concept is too "outdated"?

Don't be daft.  It's part of growing up. You cannot be expected to commit yourself unless you've been out in the real world long enough to know what's best for you.  "Animals"?!WTF! How old are you?

I believe in the value of one and only love. I am saddened by the fact many people are just like lions or other animals who always want a harem around. By the way, I am 25, I am NOT a lecherous womanizer and I am proud of it.

[Divinely Ethereal]

There is nothing pathetic in remaining faithful to the person one loves. Or do you feel that concept is too "outdated"?

Idiot. Are you saying that -as in OVA 9- if your lover hasn't shown himself for 10 years, you would choose to remain a spinster-and as in Ran's case- a virgin, and NOT move on? Well, good for you, I'm sure. I shouldn't want any woman to put up with this non-sense, we already have to make enough sacrifices in relationships/gender politics as it were  >:(

I believe in the value of one and only love. I am saddened by the fact many people are just like lions or other animals who always want a harem around. By the way, I am 25, I am NOT a lecherous womanizer and I am proud of it.

Bloody hell... wherever did I mention "harems" or "lechery". Your comprehension skills are astounding, my dear. Yes, people should pursue monogamous  relationships. No, "one and only love" does not work IRL, if you aren't getting any satisfaction from the relationship, if your partner is hardly around, you can end it and move on with another without being deemed "an animal". If your partner dies or disappears, you can learn to love someone else in time.

The ISSUE in Ran's case is that her ENTIRE EXISTENCE is for/around Kudo. It's either " What would Shinichi do?" or " Shinichi would NEVER allow this!" or "Shinichi wouldn't like me to do this." or "I have to live because Shinichi asked me to wait for him(M5)" It's like she has/is nothing without him, and that's when her faithfully waiting for him bypasses "outdated" and becomes "WRONG".

[Dwalin]

Idiot.

Thanks, I see you are really polite and respectful of the rules of this forum. When I said "animals", I wasn't referring to you (unless you have a harem of men around), but to lecherous people, while you insult me openly.

Are you saying that -as in OVA 9- if your lover hasn't shown himself for 10 years, you would choose to remain a spinster-and as in Ran's case- a virgin, and NOT move on?

I would have remained disappointed in love relationships in this case and would have chosen to remain single. I would have found something else to do. Anyway, I admire people who maintain their love for one person through their whole life.

if you aren't getting any satisfaction from the relationship, if your partner is hardly around, you can end it and move on with another without being deemed "an animal". If your partner dies or disappears, you can learn to love someone else in time.

I understand that, but you have suggested Ran should have used someone else's feelings JUST TO MAKE SHINICHI JEALOUS, even though he has been missing for only a year. That wouldn't be an exactly moral thing to do.

[Partsu]

okay...WTF happened to this thread while I was offline?
this last page is...?
Ran & Shinichi clearly love eachother.
Love makes people do stupid things.
Shinichi doesn't deserve Ran, but if she still wants him...who is to rip them apart?
if Ran is the type to "foolishly" cling onto Shinichi for years without knowing is he alive or not...who has right to say her that she should move on?
It would be her decision and none of your business, if you don't like it, BUZZ OFF!
well...actually it would be Gosho's decision to make her do that decision...

Whatever Gosho decides I support it, even if he would do something I don't like. It's his manga and he can do whatever he wants with it, even kill all the main cast at the end. (That would make him biggest troll ever...and he would probably be lynched by angry fans...)

[IHKF]

Ran & Shinichi clearly love eachother.

Hey, if YOU wanna believe it...

[Partsu]

Ran & Shinichi clearly love eachother.

Hey, if YOU wanna believe it...

I don't know if they do NOW but at early chapters they both confessed (Shinichi's daydream and Ran's confession to Conan)
and Yes I do wanna believe it.

[Vylash]

I'm sorry, but the popularity of this pairing has me concerned. I know that the majority of you are probably not Guardian-reading Liberal feminist types, but anyone with even a semblance of Western background/education should be ticked off at the frankly insulting portrayal of a so-called "idealistic" romance that subscribes to toxic patriarchal norms. The "pure", motherly/nurturing, endlessly devoted/faithful chick who sits at home waiting for her "Samurai" champion to come home, when said champion is a selfish bastard who keeps lying to her and won't let her go... well, what exactly is the allure of such an unequal relationship? I would have much respect for Ran if she stopped weeping like a daft ninny for two seconds and decided to go out once with someone else, if only to make him jealous, like, you know, what a normal functioning teenage girl would do, but it appears Ran has no self-respect. And when they're married, what then? She just sits home making dinner and popping out/looking after brats while he goes off solving cases? Because she's clearly  not even a cool, adventuress type like Yukiko who loves travelling and getting some action. I don't understand why Gosho would want Kudo to shackle himself to such a needy, clingy over-sensitive brat, especially since he prides himself on being a Holmes fanatic. If he really wanted to be like Holmes, he'd swear off women altogether. Kudo has absolutely no credibility as a Heisei Holmes, and the climax of the Holmes Arc was a complete joke.

It's just an anime, calm down

[IHKF]

Ran & Shinichi clearly love eachother.

Hey, if YOU wanna believe it...

I don't know if they do NOW but at early chapters they both confessed (Shinichi's daydream and Ran's confession to Conan)
and Yes I do wanna believe it.

Mmm hmm... and how many teenagers every day say "I'm in love with them! " and end up realizing it was their hormones?

Then go ahead and believe that.

I'm sorry, but the popularity of this pairing has me concerned. I know that the majority of you are probably not Guardian-reading Liberal feminist types, but anyone with even a semblance of Western background/education should be ticked off at the frankly insulting portrayal of a so-called "idealistic" romance that subscribes to toxic patriarchal norms. The "pure", motherly/nurturing, endlessly devoted/faithful chick who sits at home waiting for her "Samurai" champion to come home, when said champion is a selfish bastard who keeps lying to her and won't let her go... well, what exactly is the allure of such an unequal relationship? I would have much respect for Ran if she stopped weeping like a daft ninny for two seconds and decided to go out once with someone else, if only to make him jealous, like, you know, what a normal functioning teenage girl would do, but it appears Ran has no self-respect. And when they're married, what then? She just sits home making dinner and popping out/looking after brats while he goes off solving cases? Because she's clearly  not even a cool, adventuress type like Yukiko who loves travelling and getting some action. I don't understand why Gosho would want Kudo to shackle himself to such a needy, clingy over-sensitive brat, especially since he prides himself on being a Holmes fanatic. If he really wanted to be like Holmes, he'd swear off women altogether. Kudo has absolutely no credibility as a Heisei Holmes, and the climax of the Holmes Arc was a complete joke.

It's just an anime, calm down

Oh plenty of other people get that passionate on here about far dumber things.

[Divinely Ethereal]

YOU sound pathetic

You said that to me. I wasnt't even talking to you, but to Schillok. Then I called you an idiot. Because you misunderstood everything I said. Fair is fair

Kudo's "love" for Ran is possessive and wrong. He won't allow her to like/date anyone else, like Araide or Eisuke, without regard to her feelings on the matter, and he lies to her. If she wants to go out with Araide to punish him, I honestly wouldn't hold it against her *shrug* Who knows, it might make him desperate enough to finally spill the beans. And it would  then be up to her to forgive him-or not- for the long drawn-out deception. But whatever she ends up doing, Ran needs to stop taking Kudo's bullcrap and take charge of her life, like yesterday.

[IHKF]

YOU sound pathetic

You said that to me. I wasnt't even talking to you, but to Schillok. Then I called you an idiot. Because you misunderstood everything I said. Fair is fair

Kudo's "love" for Ran is possessive and wrong. He won't allow her to like/date anyone else, like Araide or Eisuke, without regard to her feelings on the matter, and he lies to her. If she wants to go out with Araide to punish him, I honestly wouldn't hold it against her *shrug* Who knows, it might make him desperate enough to finally spill the beans. And it would  then be up to her to forgive him-or not- for the long drawn-out deception. But whatever she ends up doing, Ran needs to stop taking Kudo's bullcrap and take charge of her life, like yesterday.

....... I think you are going to be my friend. xD