WARNING: M13 SPOILERS (Movie 13 Discussion Thread)

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Anyway, at risk of opening a can of worms; Shiho was voluntarily conducting the drug research even though you could argue that she was under some duress. Remember, she was getting ready to personally test it on Kiichirou Numabuchi before she escaped. If her sister hadn't been killed, she very well may have gone through with the test. Rabid Ai fans aside, in the US at least, Conan would be legally better off with a self defense argument than Ai probably would be for her work on the drug regardless of her original goal in development.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that at the end of the series, if Shiho returns to being Shiho and doesn't run away or something, she'd have to be prosecuted.  And all parties, including Shinichi, Agasa, and Shiho herself, would agree that it'd have to be that way.  Unless some sort of plea agreement were made.

This is part of the reason I think Haibara will stay as Haibara in the end even though I don't think she would run away from her crimes if she took the antidote. The primary reason I think she will stay small is because she has no one to go back to as Shiho, but has made a lot of contacts as Ai; Shiho has no future, but Ai does.

By the way, my translating ability stinks, but it sounded like Irish wanted to take Conan to the boss to show him the the effects of the drug. Am I right?

Irish wanted to take Conan to the Boss in order to show the Boss Gin's failures: 1) He was unsuccessful at killing Kudou Shinichi, and 2) He wasn't able to realize Conan's identity.  This would cause Gin to lose standing within the organization.

Touché. That almost makes me wish Irish had managed to haul Conan off just so I could see Gin's expression as his mistakes come to light.

[Abs.]

This is part of the reason I think Haibara will stay as Haibara in the end even though I don't think she would run away from her crimes if she took the antidote. The primary reason I think she will stay small is because she has no one to go back to as Shiho, but has made a lot of contacts as Ai; Shiho has no future, but Ai does.

Now, if Akai is still alive......


I'm of the thought that Shiho staying Haibara forever is another version of running from her destiny.  Shiho didn't seem to have that in mind from the start.  If Shiho had wanted to hide in the body of a primary school student forever, she wouldn't have sought out Kudou.  She could have just found some nice family to take her in, after she made up some story about what happened to her parents.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

This is part of the reason I think Haibara will stay as Haibara in the end even though I don't think she would run away from her crimes if she took the antidote. The primary reason I think she will stay small is because she has no one to go back to as Shiho, but has made a lot of contacts as Ai; Shiho has no future, but Ai does.

Now, if Akai is still alive......


I'm of the thought that Shiho staying Haibara forever is another version of running from her destiny.  Shiho didn't seem to have that in mind from the start.  If Shiho had wanted to hide in the body of a primary school student forever, she wouldn't have sought out Kudou.  She could have just found some nice family to take her in, after she made up some story about what happened to her parents.

Good point about the running. However, complicating things, I thought the reason she sought out Kudo was because he was in the same situation as her and could understand her feelings. She says that in her introduction arc after she freaks Conan out by suggesting Agasa is dead. I'm too lazy to link to the page with the line.

How old is Akai by the way? I forgot already. Akemi is about 24 or 25 so I assume Akai is the same age or older...

[Abs.]

Good point about the running. However, complicating things, I thought the reason she sought out Kudo was because he was in the same situation as her and could understand her feelings. She says that in her introduction arc after she freaks Conan out by suggesting Agasa is dead. I'm too lazy to link to the page with the line.

How old is Akai by the way? I forgot already. Akemi is about 24 or 25 so I assume Akai is the same age or older...

Yes, she sought out Kudou because of that - but that meant that her wanting some sort of link to her adult self won out over her wanting to hide from the organization forever.  (By the way, I LOVE THAT FREAK-OUT... she's a total badass.  "(Because... )he's not of this world anymore.")

I don't believe we ever got an age for Akai... then again, we never really got ages for most of the characters.  Yeah, taking it from Shiho's 84... I mean 18, I'd say that's an accurate guess.

[Sakina]

I only saw the end, but I was absolute shocked!
Is there anyone in this movie who is not OOC? But the most terrible thing was the thing with Conan in the end. I don't wan't to spoil anyone, but the ones who saw it, will understand. The thirst thing I thought of after it, was his accusation towards Shiho,

Spoiler:

calling her a murderer.

His action is worse! This is not a real Conan. >.<
The same with the BO members. Except of someone's death, it is OOC. -.- And that makes me sad. Such a good story is now wearing out. ;_;

Oh is that what they were saying?  I wondered....  I don't speak Japanese at all.

Spoiler:

I don't see this issue with Conan calling her a murderer.  Are you suggesting she is not?  Because to me, it is the simple and plain truth that she is a murderer.  She made poison.  Poison kills people.  Does that not make creator of poison a murderer?  It's not so much an accusation as a fact.  It seems very Conan to me.  There is only one truth.

[Jd-]

I only saw the end, but I was absolute shocked!
Is there anyone in this movie who is not OOC? But the most terrible thing was the thing with Conan in the end. I don't wan't to spoil anyone, but the ones who saw it, will understand. The thirst thing I thought of after it, was his accusation towards Shiho,

Spoiler:

calling her a murderer.

His action is worse! This is not a real Conan. >.<
The same with the BO members. Except of someone's death, it is OOC. -.- And that makes me sad. Such a good story is now wearing out. ;_;

Oh is that what they were saying?  I wondered....  I don't speak Japanese at all.

Spoiler:

I don't see this issue with Conan calling her a murderer.  Are you suggesting she is not?  Because to me, it is the simple and plain truth that she is a murderer.  She made poison.  Poison kills people.  Does that not make creator of poison a murderer?  It's not so much an accusation as a fact.  It seems very Conan to me.  There is only one truth.

Well, I've seen the movie in the language of English, and...

Spoiler:

I do not recall him saying she was a murderer.

Also...

Spoiler:

The movie is mental. I won't throw out my opinions on it now, but I think the absurdity of the end sums the entire movie up in a universe where--thankfully--the movies do not create plot holes. Cause if they were acknowledged as canon, the amount of "Whaaaat?" brought on by this movie would bring down democracy as we know it.

Srs bidness.

[Abs.]

Well, I've seen the movie in the language of English, and...

Tease.

[Sakina]

Heh.  Well I guess I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed the movie.

Spoiler:

Or maybe I'm just too entertained by explosions and helicopters opening fire on and permanently scarring a well-known monument.

Spoiler:

And I refuse to believe that the BO members are dead.  I saw no bodies therefore they are not dead.  It is the first rule of any sort of fiction.  I saw an explosion but I saw nothing else.   Only if they had lived could I see conan acting the way he was at the end.  If he'd killed them I think he would probably feel all guilty and acting sort of like he did in episode 11.  How he was certain he wasn't going to kill them I'll never know though.

[Misztina]

No, no, you don't get the point. Darkstar said that because:

Spoiler:

Conan basicly "killed" Gin and co. . Okay, they were alive, yay, but he coudn't predict that after the helicopter crash they would be still alive. Even if t was self-defense in some way, he didn't feel a tiny bit responsible, or anything.
Yet he called Haibara a murderer in ep. 129., although Sherry didn't have much choice, either she kills herself, or is killed by the BO, or her sister would be killed by the BO or she continiues to perfect the drug which wasn't supposed to be a murderous weapon in the first place.
So it is out of Conan' character that he would just blow up Gin's heli and that's all. Of course that is our opinion without the English subtitles.

Quote from: Jd- on October 12, 2009, 11:51:58 PM
Well, I've seen the movie in the language of English, and...

Tease.

+1 

[Abs.]

No, no, you don't get the point. Darkstar said that because:

Spoiler:

Conan basicly "killed" Gin and co. . Okay, they were alive, yay, but he coudn't predict that after the helicopter crash they would be still alive. Even if t was self-defense in some way, he didn't feel a tiny bit responsible, or anything.
Yet he called Haibara a murderer in ep. 129., although Sherry didn't have much choice, either she kills herself, or is killed by the BO, or her sister would be killed by the BO or she continiues to perfect the drug which wasn't supposed to be a murderous weapon in the first place.
So it is out of Conan' character that he would just blow up Gin's heli and that's all.

Thank you.  Apparently, you are one of the few people who actually read what I write.

[Jd-]

Well, I've seen the movie in the language of English, and...

Tease.

No, this is a tease.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I was flipping through some of the old M13 speculation topics before it came out and I came across this...

The mahjong tile in question is the seven of circles/stones.

The positioning of the spots on the mahjong tile brings to mind the big and little dippers. I wonder if that's relevant.... we can't tell I suppose until the movie starts.

I totally failed though on who had the knife. I thought it was Sato. I also was skeptical about Chianti and Korn shooting at Sato's car. Well I suppose you can hit a bulls-eye blindfolded - if you throw enough darts...  :P

[sexysmirk]

Spoiler:

I thought the movie was okay overall. I mean, I figured nothing major major would happen because all of the movies are dependent and you never learn anything crazy important through them. I loved the beginning nightmare, even though it was obviously a nightmare (unless Gin became a ninja and could slip between Conan and the door without Conan realizing [which would be totally badass if that was the case]) and I loved the ending. The middle part I thought dragged out too much. I went and got dinner in the middle. I was happier once they got to the tower.

The next movie sure looks exciting though. I feel as if it is going to be similar to 8 and 9, with the whole 1. solve a murder and then 2. save us from dying in a... blimp.

Just for the record, 8 is my favorite movie.

[ranger]

Man I dunno what movie you guys watched....movie 13 was great!!!!  Especially compared to like...the past 7 movies.  I haven't seen a decent DC movie since Phantom on Baker Street.

Maybe it's just my obsession with the BO that gave me this bias...but honestly, I thought this movie was too legit to quit.

Spoiler:

You have to give props to the movie writing team guys...compared to the past movies this was great.

They referenced a lot of files in the anime/manga, which made me a happy ranger.
The Beatles-bit with the Superintendent = The Scar case
All the major police officers were there - even the guy with the crutch (his name slips me)
The new intro was just awesome, I loved the recap instead of the traditional "char intro"
The reference to the Pisco case

It was just awesome.

Spoiler:

Also, I think Ran wasn't too much of the damsel in distress this time, which made me happy, and I liked how they cut her air-time, because when she usually does have air-time, it's the same "I miss you shinichi" crap we've all seen for 500+ episodes and 12 movies.  Just my two cents, no offense to Ran fans, just what I noticed.

[dilbertschalter]

Well, I would say it's better than 10 and 11, but that's not exactly high praise. The mystery was not difficult and the "BO in helicopters" climax was one of the worst in the series. Not "movie 10 bad", but pretty darn close. So many things about it about were nonsensically and the scoring didn't add anything to it which disappointed me greatly.

On a somewhat related not, Conan's method of 'escape' was oddly reminiscent of the intro to movie 6.