Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[PhoenixTears]

I can't say I like observe or stake-out actually. In fact, I have come to hate both abilities. Observe isn't actually that useful except in limited situations and stake out isn't good for a whole lot either.

Edit: massive typing failure. ^^; Hopefully I've caught everything. If not, we'll blame my phone.

[Dus]

Go to bed, PT, way too many typos in that post.
I'm not a huge fan of stake-out but I don't know why people keep hating on observe. I find it to be quite useful. Unless you're just blindly guessing and keep finding adults.

[Commi-Ninja]

Observe can be quite useful sometimes, and so can stake-out.  It just really depends on the situation.

I've never been Camel, so I don't have the frustration that evidently comes with that role.  I don't really know what the issue is, in that case.

[Akonyl]

drunken tears :V

but anyway, my opinion is largely the same as Dus's, observe really is pretty good if you don't keep winding up hitting adults. With all the children/teenagers in the game, I'd actually say it has a better hit rate than interrogate, except instead of finding out someone who's BO (or slandered), it gets you a pretty good ally.

The only problem I could really see with Observe is that the reliable result (child) isn't entirely reliable because of Anokata. So if people really think that Observe is such a bad ability, I'd say rather than changing Camel/Jodie, make Anokata's observe result randomly teenager/adult rather than child/teenager/adult, because really it's pretty unlikely Genta's the boss.

[Commi-Ninja]

Cry all you want, Akonyl.  I've been Vodka more times than necessary.

As for changing Anokata's observe: I'm fine with that.  I'm going to laugh my head off if it turns out Genta or Ayumi are really Anokata, though.

[Stopwatch]

I don't know about Observe but I've got to say I found Stakeout quite useful, especially if used in a Stakeout-Interrogate combo 'cause you can be certain if the result's correct, if someone claims an ability and uses it on someone you can check by using Stakeout, so, yeah, I found Stakeout pretty useful when I was Chiba...

[Dus]

No love for Mitsuhiko, commi?

[PhoenixTears]

No really, Ako, have you ever been Jodie/Camel? Observe and stake out are hardly that useful. The only thing that makes observe more reliable than interrogate is that there's no ability to change someone's age (ignoring disguise, of course; though that might actually be interesting).

I don't think it's just a "stigma" that so many people dislike being Camel/Jodie, seeing as I've only ever seen a couple people defend them.

@Stopwatch: once Gin is gone, stake out-interrogate is no longer necessary. And just because you stake out someone who had an action done to them that someone said they were gonna do, that doesn't mean that person actually did that action. Not very reliable in that regard.

[Commi-Ninja]

No love for Mitsuhiko, commi?

I only mentioned Genta and Ayumi because, in my opinion, they're the two most annoying characters in the series.  XD

I was Jodie once, but I think I was also BFFs with Sonoko at that time, so... 

[Jd-]

I've made Observe work for me a few times, but Stake-Out... honestly, I think it may have worked once for me. I haven't heard of anyone in the past fifteen mini games or so using it effectively whatsoever. I think the idea behind the ability is good, but it may need a change of some sort.

EDIT: To add onto this, I think the main problem with Stake-Out is the Black Suitcase. It simply renders Stake-Out completely ineffective when the Borg has any idea what you're going to do. Unlike with slandering and interrogates, which can only be used by one Borg member, the Black Suitcase is useable by the entire Borg for the duration of the game, thus always allowing them to foil any and all stake-outers. My recommendation would be to introduce an "analyze" sort of ability where the stake-outer could analyze one of their stake-out results from the previous night to see if it was authentic or not. This would at least give the Borg some pause on using it all over the place.

[pofa]

Observe and stakeout are abilities that are probably more useful the further into the game you get (ie, once you're already in an alliance and are trying to prove more and more people). I don't think there's anything wrong with having some roles be less immediately "useful" than others, but if we can find a way to do that and not bore the people who get those roles to death, I guess it'd be cool. (In that case though, protectors/healers and day actions except maybe Haibara are soo much more boring even than observe/stakeouters).

Edit: And Pisco and Tequila. Boringest roles ever.

[Vylash]

For now, can we at least make it so they can use both of their awful abilities, instead of just one?

[pofa]

For now, can we at least make it so they can use both of their awful abilities, instead of just one?

My first thought was, "Poor Vodka." XD

[PhoenixTears]

@pofa: Maybe it's just because I've had such horrible experiences with observe and stake out, but I'd much rather be a healer/protector/day action person.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I don't see any problem with observe or stake-out.

Stake-out was introduced because there were too many roles with investigate. And stake-out can be really useful.
For the town, it's useful to check if someone was slandered. Or maybe if someone was really tricked and doesn't just pretend to have been tricked etc.
For BO, it's useful to see what kind of abilities there are around. Or if the one that was slanderd was also interrogated. Or if someone that doesn't use a night action was tricked (pisco etc.)

It's always up to the player how he uses the ability. And I'm not wondering that PT doesn't like stake-out at all, because that's a ability you can use the best when you are in an alliance. And we all know PT is quite paranoid
And PT was also a stake-outer a lot. So of course she would get annoyed by it.
I also heard from someone that he was fed up with investigators/interrogators D: But I wouldn't change them because of that (was it pofa? XD Dunno anymore)

I don't like it that people want to change the abilities/roles into "solo role". Meaning roles that can take down the BO on it's own.
I prefer it when abilities are good, but get really strong if you find the right ally. Like Stake-out.

@jd's idea: That BS is there so the BO can infiltrate the town. If you make those actions analyzable, then why give the BO BS at all? The BO already have a hard time to trick the Town, with all those changes nowadays D:

@slander: I still wonder why this "slandering device" wasn't added. PT is right, once Gin is dead or not in the game, stake-out usefulness decreases drastically. But if the BO can always slander, then stake-out will stay useful.

@anokata: If people really want to change that :V But then the DBs are getting stronger too again. And when 3 DBs were around, the BO had a really hard time then.


But hey, why doesn't the GM say who's BO during N1 anyway? Would make things soooo much easier