Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby KangarooGirl » October 17th, 2014, 4:36 pm

If we were to give townies Research we would have to make it so that it shows when anyone uses it or it becomes too strong. Agasa is usually considered in balancing as a protector (at least to me, dunno about you guys) so if we end up making an OR Research, town loses more protection which isn't good either. So yeah I'd be in favour of 1 gadget if Research and making at the very least Faked actions showing if not just make it a blanket anyone using that ability.

I did have a few queries about travelling. Can we nix the travellers start the game outside of Japan part too while we're changing it? If we're keeping that then does the travel into Japan count as using one ticket? And do they arrive on Night 1 if that's the case?
And if travellers are about to be lynched, votes shown or not? I'm for votes not shown so it's not too obvious if it's a landslide XD
In the meantime though, here's a copy of what I understand we're trying to change travel to :x

Travel
Player travels
- Role with action: Hakuba, Sherry
- Prep action, Day/Night action
- At the onset of the game, the player is not in Japan.
- They may choose whether they wish to travel during Prep by saying as much to the GM. If they do travel beginning in prep, they will be in the air on Night 1, thus making it so they cannot use their action during the night. If this path is chosen, they will arrive during Day 1 and be able to participate normally.
- To travel, the player sends a travel order to the GM (whether it's during Prep, Night, or Day) and the traveller will remain out of the country for that one phase. The player may then resume using actions and be acted upon normally the phase right after.
- Traveling can only be hindered by successful Arrest, APTX or killing through Bribe. It will not be hindered by Discombobulate, Frighten, House Search, Detain or Face Pinch.
- For abilities such as investigate, interrogate, kill, and the like that directly concern a player, if the player is out of the country, they will receive a "fail" for ALL their results as if Discombobulated.
- If the traveler is not in Japan: The player is treated as if they were "arrested" as far as not being able to be killed, not being able to use any actions apart from Travel, and not being able to vote. Bribe will still kill travelers in any state. If the traveller is about to be lynched and decides to use Travel that phase, the lynch will fail and the votes will not be shown.
- Leaving Japan: The player may not use an ability or vote and travel in the same phase. They must either decide to travel or use their abilities--not both.
- Travel will not affect APTX. Should the Black Org send the correct APTX on the traveller, it will go through whether the traveller is in Japan or not.
- Players have a limited number of Travel tickets. They will start with 2 and will gain one more every 3 day/night cycles. So one will be given out on Night 4 and the next will be given out on Night 7 and so on.

And here's Sleeping Pill:
Sleeping Pill
Not investigatable
- Role with action: Sherry, Araide
- Day action
- Can be given to any player. That player will fall asleep during the following night and can't preform any actions (except Arrest and Bribe-killing) for that phase at all.
- Does not affect any actions performed during the day phase it was handed out.
- Can be Frightened.
- Passive actions will still work.
- The player will be notified that they have fallen asleep at the end of the day phase.

Edit so it's in the same place: I'll just be adding Toichi as PT posted earlier with the exception of White Suitcase Investigate being Inv 3 or SI
Last edited by KangarooGirl on October 17th, 2014, 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Parkur wrote:Hopelessidiot, Mafia Therapist
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Interrogation: Young
Items: Forged Therapist Degree, Picture of Lucy from Charlie Brown, Picture of Yurikochan
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby PhoenixTears » October 17th, 2014, 5:05 pm

- I agree with travelers starting in Japan N1 because that's simplest.
- I agree with not showing votes if a traveler who's not in the country is being lynched (which is the same as it is now anyway afaik). If we do go this route, I suggest adding it into the "Voting" section of the rules thread, too, just to stop any confusion before it starts.
- Under Sleeping Pill, maybe write it "(except Arrest and Bribe)" for clarity purposes. [I find it's better to have MORE clarity even when it feels unnecessary and avoid potential issues later on.]
- Research + 1 Gadget [OR] 2 Gadgets sounds like the most balanced way to do thing.
- I think Fake actions should show up on Research (though would this affect Sherry?) but not other BO actions. And then once it's tested, we can decide if it's too weak/too strong.
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby PhoenixTears » October 17th, 2014, 5:15 pm

Double-posting because I found something else that we need to figure out.

Under Friendship, we have this:
- Travelers can be befriended. Apart from the initial phases, Sonoko will be "travelling" with Hakuba if he chooses to leave the country

That's based on the old way Travel was, but with this new one, would Sonoko also be allowed to Travel? Would she travel automatically whenever Hakuba does, or would she have her own tickets?

Also, would Hakuba become disguisable, particularly if he starts in Japan (since he would no longer technically be a prep role)?
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby KangarooGirl » October 17th, 2014, 5:20 pm

Yeah if Hakuba starts in Japan I'd say he would be disguisable. And I'd assume Sonoko would continue travelling with her friend. And so if one person sends actions and the other sends Travel, the GM should take whoever's sent it latest (Last valid action and all that).
Parkur wrote:Hopelessidiot, Mafia Therapist
Night action: Council
Day Action: PGT
Interrogation: Young
Items: Forged Therapist Degree, Picture of Lucy from Charlie Brown, Picture of Yurikochan
Observe: Hopeless *shakes head*


[17:56:37] * xpon is a honest liar


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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby pofa » October 17th, 2014, 5:48 pm

1 Gadget + research sounds OK to me to test; it seems like the best way would be to have BS or Blamed actions show up. We could throw in a clarification that Sherry just...doesn't have that restriction? For her, blamed/BS actions won't show up but for Agasa they will?

The travel looks good; I agree with votes not shown. Does everyone else agree with not being able to vote or use actions on the phase they hand in the travel notice? We hadn't talked about that yet iirc.

For Sonoko, I think we should treat it like the other "limited use" actions (VoR, Lawsuit, Charm, Gadgets): They share the tickets. Either player can use them, but when they're gone they're gone.

And there's no reason people couldn't disguise as Hakuba, I suppose.
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby KangarooGirl » October 17th, 2014, 6:14 pm

For Research I'd rather keep it simple and have the same rules for both. For now I've got it on Faked yes, Blamed no, BO used actions no. I'll change it to both if more people feel that's better.

I would assume it would stay an Action/Vote OR Travel thing. So people won't just travel willy nilly but if there are convincing arguments for both to be used then I'll consider it.

I also completely forgot about Amuro. Are we adding him too? :x I'd vote yes because just yes XD

Kinda want to finish this before today ends if possible because I don't generally have as much time during the week to do it.
Parkur wrote:Hopelessidiot, Mafia Therapist
Night action: Council
Day Action: PGT
Interrogation: Young
Items: Forged Therapist Degree, Picture of Lucy from Charlie Brown, Picture of Yurikochan
Observe: Hopeless *shakes head*


[17:56:37] * xpon is a honest liar


Add my FC: 3454-1638-0292
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby PhoenixTears » October 17th, 2014, 7:15 pm

I vote yes on Amuro just to have more to throw of interrogation and scent, but that might just be me. :-X
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby KangarooGirl » October 19th, 2014, 4:52 pm

Well, Amuro added. If people don't like him then just take him out :P
Parkur wrote:Hopelessidiot, Mafia Therapist
Night action: Council
Day Action: PGT
Interrogation: Young
Items: Forged Therapist Degree, Picture of Lucy from Charlie Brown, Picture of Yurikochan
Observe: Hopeless *shakes head*


[17:56:37] * xpon is a honest liar


Add my FC: 3454-1638-0292
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby Osaka Detective » November 5th, 2014, 9:50 am

So a few pages back there were some talk about lack of roles in the BO pool. So I cracked my brain to think of cool roles to give us even more BOs (what this is totally not so so my Azusa-chan can get added). I suggested have anti-Undercover roles to buff up the numbers of BO. I personally think that could work, like maybe rename the current Kir to Rena or something, and give Kir (the BO codename) to the BO-aligned Rena. So like Haibara-Sherry, same stipulation regarding them being in the same game.

... Anyways, thought of two possible BOs to add. Yeah I have no idea what I'm doing but hey I tried! Keeping them in a spoiler box because :p

[spoiler=Miyano Atsushi]Atsushi, Mafia Scientist
Night action: Research
Day action: Develop
Interrogation: BO
Scent: No
Disguise: No
Items: Gun, Alcohol, Glasses
Observe: Male Adult

Develop
Not investigatable.
- Role with action: Atsushi
- Day Action.
- If the Researched Ability from the previous phase turns out to be 'true', can use the ability during the following night phase only. Cannot Develop the same ability more than once.
- Example: Atsushi researches Discombobulate on N1. Discombobulate turns out 'TRUE' and Atsushi develops Discombobulate D1. Atsushi will be able to use Discombobulate + Research in N2. Atsushi will subsequently lose Discombobulate as a night action and will need to Develop a new one.[/spoiler]

and Evil Kir!

[spoiler=Kir]Kir, Mafia Interviewer
Night action: Interview
Day Action: Report
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: No
Items: Gun, Car keys, Headgear, Panties, Alcohol
Observe: Female Adult

Interview
Investigatable.
- Role with action: Kir
- Night Action
- All actions done by and on the interviewed target will fail, with the exception of Arrest, Detain or House Search.
- If the Interviewer is Arrested or Discombobulated, the action will fail.
- Example: Kir Interviews Shinichi. Shinichi Interrogates Sera. Haibara Follows Shinichi. Shinichi's and Haibara's action will fail.

Report
Investigatable.
- Role with action: Kir
- Day Action
- Kir learns of one random attribute (Age, Gender, Item Owned or Scent) that the Interviewed target (assuming she did so the previous phase) possesses.
- If the Interviewer is Arrested or Discombobulated, the action will fail.
- Example: Kir Interviewed Shinichi N1. Kir will learn one of Shinichi's attribute: He is male OR a teenager OR owns school book OR has no scent.[/spoiler]

Yeah pls don't yell at me ;^;
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby Yurikochan » November 5th, 2014, 2:32 pm

I'm not going too much here, but both of your actions though not totally bad, aside from Atsushi who actually needs a BO in for actions, which I don't actually like, the only think I can think of is make Atsushi clone Sherry's action, like a certain round 15 Bourbon that had detect and identify and Atsushi can use the one one phase, and next the next phase, if he depends on Sherry, that would be bad :x in my opinion.

Interview sounds like stalk from round 15 too, but having an information wielding BO and one that can stop actions every phase, bothers me a little, also interview is what hinder was, and it became a pretty powerful thing. :x
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby KangarooGirl » November 5th, 2014, 3:41 pm

Develop is interesting and would mean Research would be used in a totally different way. Since right now Sherry is probably going to be avoiding more common actions like SI or observe but for Atsushi it would be beneficial to do so. In that sense it could potentially be very strong but the limitation on only doing it once is probably good enough to test with.

With Interview I agree with Yuriko it's too strong. We had Hinder which only prevents people from using actions on the target and it was already bad :x We had to remove it. If we can figure out something else for Interview, I don't have a problem with adding evil Kir. How about Interview 5 or so (townie number/3?) townies for an ability used? Eg. Kir interviews Yuriko, Conia, PT, OD, Kaldra, Kleene to see if any of them used Observe. Kir only gets a true or false so if there are more than one in there she doesn't know. Adding Report in that case can be too strong but if people don't think so then Report on one of the townies on their age/gender/item/scent.
Parkur wrote:Hopelessidiot, Mafia Therapist
Night action: Council
Day Action: PGT
Interrogation: Young
Items: Forged Therapist Degree, Picture of Lucy from Charlie Brown, Picture of Yurikochan
Observe: Hopeless *shakes head*


[17:56:37] * xpon is a honest liar


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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby Osaka Detective » November 6th, 2014, 6:19 am

I'm not exactly sure what Yuriko is referring to, sorry! If you mean Sherry having to be in the game for Atsushi to work, Atsushi gets Research as well, so he doesn't need Sherry at all. So I guess he's self-sufficient? Not exactly sure what the "needs a BO in for actions to work" comes from so :x I'd say he should only be able to develop his own Research results.

As for Evil Kir, yeah I'm still like really new and all so I wasn't exactly sure if it was counted as overpowered or not. I mean most of my inspiration came from 425, but I guess it didn't really make sense as a whole canon-wise, the whole Discombobulate/Forced-Travel Interview thingy. Stick-to-canon OCDs makes me want to say that Interview (whichever it is) should be a Day action though. So maybe rename the proposal Report into Interview and give evil Kir the detect town ability *number* as a night ability. Maybe Plan or Schedule or something? Because like, maybe she'd ask people "what are you gonna do" before you Interview? Idk XD
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby Yurikochan » November 6th, 2014, 2:00 pm

Osaka Detective wrote:I'm not exactly sure what Yuriko is referring to, sorry! If you mean Sherry having to be in the game for Atsushi to work, Atsushi gets Research as well, so he doesn't need Sherry at all. So I guess he's self-sufficient? Not exactly sure what the "needs a BO in for actions to work" comes from so :x I'd say he should only be able to develop his own Research results.

As for Evil Kir, yeah I'm still like really new and all so I wasn't exactly sure if it was counted as overpowered or not. I mean most of my inspiration came from 425, but I guess it didn't really make sense as a whole canon-wise, the whole Discombobulate/Forced-Travel Interview thingy. Stick-to-canon OCDs makes me want to say that Interview (whichever it is) should be a Day action though. So maybe rename the proposal Report into Interview and give evil Kir the detect town ability *number* as a night ability. Maybe Plan or Schedule or something? Because like, maybe she'd ask people "what are you gonna do" before you Interview? Idk XD


I actually missed he had research, OD.

I think it's something someone would have to try out, or used in an MM GMed FM type game and BO know the number of town usually, and if your a vet you can usually figure out roles, it's one of the actual reasons, I do prefer clones being around.
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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby KangarooGirl » November 27th, 2014, 2:46 pm

This is a bit late but we should decide this before Kleene starts her round. It came up during the last FM that Research needed some clarifications.

1) Can you Research Research? I'm leaning towards only abilities that are investigatable and therefore no.
2) Does the Bowtie count towards the Research count? Currently I'd say it does but the main question is if a BO uses the Bowtie, should it count?
3) Should I make Agasa able to Research AND use both his items N1? Since Researching usually affects D1 stuff it would end up penalising him twice if I leave it as is.
Parkur wrote:Hopelessidiot, Mafia Therapist
Night action: Council
Day Action: PGT
Interrogation: Young
Items: Forged Therapist Degree, Picture of Lucy from Charlie Brown, Picture of Yurikochan
Observe: Hopeless *shakes head*


[17:56:37] * xpon is a honest liar


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Re: Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

Postby Kleene Onigiri » November 29th, 2014, 8:36 pm

@Kangas questions:

1) I'd say you can only research investigatable actions. (if someone is against that, say something :D )
2) You mean if someone uses bow-tie investigate/interrogate?
3) Hmmmm.... dunno XD

Edit:
@Interview: Since the "good Kir" has a random factor ability, how about Interview gives out a random report from a ability used from town? It doesn't say from who it was, just "Kleene was observed as female" for example.
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