Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby Iwamoto Yuri » April 22nd, 2017, 9:20 am

Might be best. As things are now, just accusing people at the end gets the players nowhere.
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby Kleene Onigiri » April 23rd, 2017, 11:10 am

How about the detective could also share his results with one person he chooses? That person can be civilian, informant or spy.
That way, if a civilian get's the info, he could spread it to others in the thread (XYZ is not a civilian according to the info I got etc.), especially once the detective dies.
But since there is no proof that that person really got this info, informant and spy can pretend to have information too.
Of course, if the spy get's the info, he'll also know that this person isn't the detective.

Could make it a bit easier for civilians but wouldn't be overpowered?
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby dumytru » April 23rd, 2017, 11:43 am

Kleene Onigiri wrote:How about the detective could also share his results with one person he chooses? That person can be civilian, informant or spy.
That way, if a civilian get's the info, he could spread it to others in the thread (XYZ is not a civilian according to the info I got etc.), especially once the detective dies.
But since there is no proof that that person really got this info, informant and spy can pretend to have information too.
Of course, if the spy get's the info, he'll also know that this person isn't the detective.

Could make it a bit easier for civilians but wouldn't be overpowered?


We can try this for the next round. Is everyone okay with it?
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby Nemomon » April 23rd, 2017, 12:11 pm

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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby Stopwatch » April 23rd, 2017, 5:11 pm

dumytru wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote:How about the detective could also share his results with one person he chooses? That person can be civilian, informant or spy.
That way, if a civilian get's the info, he could spread it to others in the thread (XYZ is not a civilian according to the info I got etc.), especially once the detective dies.
But since there is no proof that that person really got this info, informant and spy can pretend to have information too.
Of course, if the spy get's the info, he'll also know that this person isn't the detective.

Could make it a bit easier for civilians but wouldn't be overpowered?


We can try this for the next round. Is everyone okay with it?

Whilst in theory the Spy and/or Informant could fake it in practice it would be suicide because the actual Civilian who got the result would just announce theirs and the Spy and/or Informant would look really bad for having faked it. If the Spy and/or Informant got the actual result they would also have to probably announce it or risk coming under fire from the Detective who knows who they gave the info to. So all that happens is that a player is proven a phase and a Spy knows that that player isn't the Detective. Though if the Detective can choose not to share the info the person who announces the stuff *could* still be Detective.
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby Kleene Onigiri » April 23rd, 2017, 6:16 pm

Stopwatch wrote:
dumytru wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote:How about the detective could also share his results with one person he chooses? That person can be civilian, informant or spy.
That way, if a civilian get's the info, he could spread it to others in the thread (XYZ is not a civilian according to the info I got etc.), especially once the detective dies.
But since there is no proof that that person really got this info, informant and spy can pretend to have information too.
Of course, if the spy get's the info, he'll also know that this person isn't the detective.

Could make it a bit easier for civilians but wouldn't be overpowered?


We can try this for the next round. Is everyone okay with it?

Whilst in theory the Spy and/or Informant could fake it in practice it would be suicide because the actual Civilian who got the result would just announce theirs and the Spy and/or Informant would look really bad for having faked it. If the Spy and/or Informant got the actual result they would also have to probably announce it or risk coming under fire from the Detective who knows who they gave the info to. So all that happens is that a player is proven a phase and a Spy knows that that player isn't the Detective. Though if the Detective can choose not to share the info the person who announces the stuff *could* still be Detective.


They still could do that tho. While very risky for the spy, the informant can do that. Let's say the detective survived 3 phases, so there would be 3 infos. But 4 people claim info on people. If you know the informant it would be easy (with lists revealed it's easier I guess). Otherwise not so much.

Maybe, so that not 1 person get's all the info from the detective, you could make it like that: Detective uses investigate and names the 3 people. He get's told who's not a spy. Randomly one of the other 2 that were on the investigate also get that info. Since people can't be more than 2 times in the investigation, it would hinder that someone get's all the info.
Maybe also set a limit on how often it get's shared (like, not more than halve the number of people playing?). And the detective could also choose not to share the info I guess.
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby dumytru » April 23rd, 2017, 6:53 pm

What if the Detective can chose not to share? So he won't share any info Day 1, he'll clear a civilian, then he can share future results with the players he already knows are civilians.

And I'm not sure why the civilians who receive the result must share it in the forums. They could share the result only if a proven civilian is about to be lynched, or if they themselves are about to be lynched (even if they can't avoid their own lynch, they can clear another civilian).
It'd be somewhat a meta-game. Everybody knows there's a player who has a result, and if nobody's saying anything, then the lynch target isn't a proven civilian.
Because this info is kept secret (unless it's needed to be revealed), the informant could actually "fake" receiving a result.
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby KaitoRizu » April 24th, 2017, 5:09 am

I didn't say anything earlier because I felt that I don't know the game well enough but since I was playing as the detective there was one thing I though of as a disadvantage for detective and civilians:
reading the rules of the game I knew that if the spy found me, the detective, and killed me the game would be really close to ending in favor of the spy... the civilians have random lists and the spy have a chance of appearing on them so they can't be used to clearing people so I can't claim "he's not the spy because he's on my list"... I'd have info to clear people but I couldn't share those because the spy would find me...

because of that I agree to Kleene's suggestion but I also have a slightly different suggestion (feel free to ignore it if it's not good... I don't know the game well enough after all...):
how about having the results of the detective's investigate of each day sent to two randomly chosen players (could be civilian, informant, or spy) each turn, leaving three people with the info (the detective and the two who received the results)
one of the three could share the info in the open without the identity of the detective getting revealed... even if the spy received the results and kept them hidden there would still be two others to share the info...
I don't think it's overpowered because in case the info was shared recklessly it could help the spy at least narrow out the detective's identity...
So... how about that?

(that underline and bold don't look very good XD but I'm too lazy to change and test what would look better :P )
*is too used to coding using "<>" and doesn't want to keep changing them to "[]" XD*
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby dumytru » April 24th, 2017, 6:23 am

KaitoRizu wrote:I didn't say anything earlier because I felt that I don't know the game well enough but since I was playing as the detective there was one thing I though of as a disadvantage for detective and civilians:
reading the rules of the game I knew that if the spy found me, the detective, and killed me the game would be really close to ending in favor of the spy... the civilians have random lists and the spy have a chance of appearing on them so they can't be used to clearing people so I can't claim "he's not the spy because he's on my list"... I'd have info to clear people but I couldn't share those because the spy would find me...

because of that I agree to Kleene's suggestion but I also have a slightly different suggestion (feel free to ignore it if it's not good... I don't know the game well enough after all...):
how about having the results of the detective's investigate of each day sent to two randomly chosen players (could be civilian, informant, or spy) each turn, leaving three people with the info (the detective and the two who received the results)
one of the three could share the info in the open without the identity of the detective getting revealed... even if the spy received the results and kept them hidden there would still be two others to share the info...
I don't think it's overpowered because in case the info was shared recklessly it could help the spy at least narrow out the detective's identity...
So... how about that?

(that underline and bold don't look very good XD but I'm too lazy to change and test what would look better :P )
*is too used to coding using "<>" and doesn't want to keep changing them to "[]" XD*


Any suggestion is welcome \o/
In the first phases, if would be okay, but it might be overpowered as the game goes on.
This *might* be good because we could balance the game in a different way. In the first phases the Spy has the advantage, and loses it over time.
But we need to make sure it's still possible for the Spy to win if the game is long.

Let's assume there are 13 players and we're in day 4.
In best case scenario, the Detective can clear 4 players. If they Spy killed every phase and somebody was lynched as well, there'd be 5 players left. Including Spy and Detective.
If alive civilians have been cleared, and the players who received the investigation results are alive, then the Spy doesn't stand a chance. Though we could argue that if the Spy didn't manage to kill the Detective and there are 5 players remaining, he should be at disadvantage.
In most games, the cleared players/players who receive the results would be dead though.

Sending the results to two players might be overpowered.

I wonder which is better, let the Detective chose the player who'll receive the results, or it's chosen randomly.
I'm thinking letting the Detective should chose that, because it would give him more control over the game flow (imagine the case where the Detective can avoid sending results to a players who's about to get lynched).
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby bash7353 » April 24th, 2017, 12:44 pm

This sounds all very interesting. I like the ideas so far. I guess the best way is to try it out and see what happens.

I think it would be better to let the Detective decide who receives the results. Whether or not to publish them then is up to the player. Players can also decide to pretend they received results which means we never know if someone who claims to have cleared someone is actually telling the truth. I would advocate a rule which says you can't send it to the same person twice, but you can choose to give it to no one as often as you want. Perhaps even that once you can give it to the game master to be revealed at phase change.
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby dumytru » April 30th, 2017, 7:37 am

Kamite wrote:So whens the next round?


I'm going to be quite busy this month, so I don't know when I'll be able to implement any changes to the rules.
But we can have another round anytime (with the current rules).
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby Kleene Onigiri » May 2nd, 2017, 4:45 pm

Alternative to the detectives results: it has a 50% chance that it will go to another person (whether the detective can choose the person or it's a random one out of the 3 people he chose to investigate).
That way people can't know how many shared results there are and the informant has a bit easier to fake one.
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Re: Espionage - Round Nine - The Spy escapes

Postby bash7353 » May 2nd, 2017, 7:23 pm

I don't think I really like the idea of introducting chance to the game like that. What we could do is let the Detective share the result only once every two phases. That would result in a similar situation as the 50% probability suggestion, I think.
"Jo mere uenig du er med nogen, jo pænere skal du tale til dem. Tal om indholdet. Brug tid på indholdet. Forhold dig til det, der diskuteres. Lyt til, hvad der bliver sagt, i stedet for hvem der siger det. Hvis vi skal gøre det her med demokratiet bedre, så starter vi der."
描いた夢は叶わないことの方が多い
秀れた人を羨んでは自分が嫌になる
浅い眠りに押し潰されそう夜もある
優しい隣人が陰で牙を向いていたり

惰性で観てたテレビ消すみたいに生きる
ことを時々辞めたくなる

人生は苦痛ですか 成功が全てですか
僕はあなたにあなたに ただ逢いたいだけ
信じたい嘘 効かない薬 帰れないサヨナラ
叫べ叫べ叫べ   逢いたいだけ

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