Mafia Round 55: What Kind of Pokémon Are You? (BO WINS!)

[Trickster]

@Trickster: Don't sound so smug. We'll get to you later, mister! >:(

I always sound smug.


I will sound smug even long after you've killed me and I've flipped town.

[KangarooGirl]

After reading that Conia I can think of more possibilities. I maintain my stance on Kain.

I have calculated the numbers too which is why I am insisting we don't have a split vote especially when we have evidence on one person only

Edit: I should post this before people start going to sleep.
My case against Conia:
1) wills that point to him.
A) Abs said he told Conia and Conia alone that he could investigate. Now even though now we know Abs was not a cop it is most likely the thought going through the BOs minds especially if Pofa had observed Abs as an adult

B) Yuri. Conia knew she was a healer. Yuriko was hinted at stop was also mentioned but sheseems town. How did the BO aptx her? A lucky investigate? Possible but not probable.

C) this was no will but I know xpon is almost always allied with YuriCon so I wouldn't be surprised if he was told xpon was police and satou was definitely a possibility if Conia believed trickster when he said he didn't do anything.

2) Conias injury. This would not be the first time a BO has asked a sniper who is going down to vote for them so they seem town. With so many of his allies suspiciously going down quickly I think that's a definite possibility. I don't believe he had the ability he's been saying he did. I suspect he swapped with a certain someone like he always does so any disguise investigates will come up clean. Or he is gin. :V

3) I don't want to believe that a veteran player such as him forgets such basic possibilities of roles. He most likely doesn't want us to know the BO roster since we have heard so little so far.

[KainTheVampire]

Well, I guess I'll see in the morning if you're completely dumb or not :x
I changed my vote to Trickster since Conia was the only one nice enough to support me, though he MIGHT be BO tricking me but since I really have no clue on who's BO or not I'll just go with the nice supportive person

[Conia]

After reading that Conia I can think of more possibilities. I maintain my stance on Kain.

I have calculated the numbers too which is why I am insisting we don't have a split vote especially when we have evidence on one person only

Edit: I should post this before people start going to sleep.
My case against Conia:
1) wills that point to him.
A) Abs said he told Conia and Conia alone that he could investigate. Now even though now we know Abs was not a cop it is most likely the thought going through the BOs minds especially if Pofa had observed Abs as an adult

B) Yuri. Conia knew she was a healer. Yuriko was hinted at stop was also mentioned but sheseems town. How did the BO aptx her? A lucky investigate? Possible but not probable.

C) this was no will but I know xpon is almost always allied with YuriCon so I wouldn't be surprised if he was told xpon was police and satou was definitely a possibility if Conia believed trickster when he said he didn't do anything.

2) Conias injury. This would not be the first time a BO has asked a sniper who is going down to vote for them so they seem town. With so many of his allies suspiciously going down quickly I think that's a definite possibility. I don't believe he had the ability he's been saying he did. I suspect he swapped with a certain someone like he always does so any disguise investigates will come up clean. Or he is gin. :V

3) I don't want to believe that a veteran player such as him forgets such basic possibilities of roles. He most likely doesn't want us to know the BO roster since we have heard so little so far.

Interesting...

Numbers are 5 BOs vs 6 townies, and I have little doubts that someone will get poisoned tonight. Lynching Trickster instead of Kain is still the best bet.

I asked Abs. for alliance and up to his death we were exchanging PMs, however there was never an exchange of information, we kinda hoped each other would get a lead out of somewhere, but it never happened. Also I never talked with pofa this Round, not a single PM. If someone talked to pofa of the people that are alive, I'm sure she never mentioned anything about me.

Not only an investigate can catch Kobayashi, gender observing someone as female narrows down the list quite a lot, considering she was always active in the thread, that always makes an usual target. Maybe it wasn't even pofa, a townie could have gender-observed and unluckily passed wrong the information. Just to confirm it: I knew her action and she knew mine.

Wrong assumption there Hayls, xpon and I didn't exchange PMs during this Round, and about 1/3 of the players alive knew it was Detain as soon as Trickster left jail.

Let's put the hypothesis out there that I asked pofa to injure me, even after Stop called off her lynching at least 9 or 10 hours before phase change occured. Almost everyone alive, and certainly all the BO alive, knows what I can and can't do. If you try to narrow down my possible BO role, like you did cause I'm Gin o/ how is it worth losing the actions of an important BO member a better strategy than injuring a cop? With 7 BOs in the game, the BO obviously expected a vast number of cops, my guess would have been 4-5 if I was asked this question Night 1, so there's absolutely no way it can be more beneficial losing good actions for the BO that taking out a cop's actions for the rest of the game. May I remind you that there was asuspended cop and a Satou that freed Trickster at that point, with Nakamori dead. The cops were out there and the BO knew it.

If it's ok for me to reveal it, I can tell the whole town that Vodka, Pisco and Vermouth are in the game, with 2 other BO members still to be revealed. That's already 60% of the roster left, and if you could stop countering my theories maybe we could get to know more jk jk

Also did Trickster just admit he's BO? :V Flipping the town? :V

I stand by my arguments and will keep insisting to vote Trickster, and I'm sorry if I ever sound mean or with ill intentions Trickie, I know it is your first game and Mafia is a huge complex wall-o-texts rules to try to memorize but in this game I need to get my point across however I can ^^

[Yurikochan]

Well Conia could be Vermouth, but I do know his action is real...I could say the possible BO role, but I'm pretty sure that's what you and your buddies want. ( Is Kirby Gin? ) xpon has a pretty good sense of direction when it comes to these games and he thought meme was Gin in a misunderstanding, so again I won't go into too much right here. It's VERY possible Kain was blamed, and Trickster tricked her after she was asked so she couldn't do anything. I don't know Kain's action, and yes I DID KNOW xpon was Satou again, but he also told me something about you too, aside from meme being Gin. ( He said if meme's not, you are... )

If Kain is lying about a trick, she could have bribed Kamite, or what I fear Aly was blamed for killing Kleene...and Kain just lost her action, either that or Trickster is possible Irish, Vodka, or someone with a notification action...but anyways, I think I'm gonna go back to my I am 100% town and I believe Conia is too.

@Conia: Umm, some of the things you said, kinda make you seem like a lover or BO. :/ also the fact you know 5...and Pisco....

[Conia]

Well Conia could be Vermouth, but I do know his action is real...I could say the possible BO role, but I'm pretty sure that's what you and your buddies want. ( Is Kirby Gin? ) xpon has a pretty good sense of direction when it comes to these games and he thought meme was Gin in a misunderstanding, so again I won't go into too much right here. It's VERY possible Kain was blamed, and Trickster tricked her after she was asked so she couldn't do anything. I don't know Kain's action, and yes I DID KNOW xpon was Satou again, but he also told me something about you too, aside from meme being Gin. ( He said if meme's not, you are... )

If Kain is lying about a trick, she could have bribed Kamite, or what I fear Aly was blamed for killing Kleene...and Kain just lost her action, either that or Trickster is possible Irish, Vodka, or someone with a notification action...but anyways, I think I'm gonna go back to my I am 100% town and I believe Conia is too.

I'm sure he must have said then that he never contacted me and I didn't contact him either. I know very little about Kirby so I can't really tell, I think there's more suspicious people than Kirby right now. I can joke a million times that I'm Gin (o/) but no one has said anything about me being BO or even suspicious until I started publicly speaking up, and I still think the injury is the biggest assertion that I'm town, although I admit it is not a 100% proof case.

Someone, I can't remember who right now, assured me Aly is BO and is in jail for good, it's the most I can say about her, Blame is always there And because of that, it means Kain isn't confirmed BO, from what I've gathered so far she shouldn't be lynched.

EDIT: I can say all of that from the info I've gathered from PMing every single player Could be wrong, it isn't information that I've checked myself, but I investigated (not the action) as much as I could and this is what I choose to believe is real and happening in this game. If there's a Yumi and lovers that have survived this far, they deserve an award I would rather people think I'm BO than I'm a Lover, and no I'm not BO

[breva]

Wait, how do we know there are 5 BOs left? Aren't there 2 people arrested? and btw, does anyone even know what was KL arrested for?

[Yurikochan]

Well Conia could be Vermouth, but I do know his action is real...I could say the possible BO role, but I'm pretty sure that's what you and your buddies want. ( Is Kirby Gin? ) xpon has a pretty good sense of direction when it comes to these games and he thought meme was Gin in a misunderstanding, so again I won't go into too much right here. It's VERY possible Kain was blamed, and Trickster tricked her after she was asked so she couldn't do anything. I don't know Kain's action, and yes I DID KNOW xpon was Satou again, but he also told me something about you too, aside from meme being Gin. ( He said if meme's not, you are... )

If Kain is lying about a trick, she could have bribed Kamite, or what I fear Aly was blamed for killing Kleene...and Kain just lost her action, either that or Trickster is possible Irish, Vodka, or someone with a notification action...but anyways, I think I'm gonna go back to my I am 100% town and I believe Conia is too.

I'm sure he must have said then that he never contacted me and I didn't contact him either. I know very little about Kirby so I can't really tell, I think there's more suspicious people than Kirby right now. I can joke a million times that I'm Gin (o/) but no one has said anything about me being BO or even suspicious until I started publicly speaking up, and I still think the injury is the biggest assertion that I'm town, although I admit it is not a 100% proof case.

Someone, I can't remember who right now, assured me Aly is BO and is in jail for good, it's the most I can say about her, Blame is always there And because of that, it means Kain isn't confirmed BO, from what I've gathered so far she shouldn't be lynched.

EDIT: I can say all of that from the info I've gathered from PMing every single player Could be wrong, it isn't information that I've checked myself, but I investigated (not the action) as much as I could and this is what I choose to believe is real and happening in this game. If there's a Yumi and lovers that have survived this far, they deserve an award I would rather people think I'm BO than I'm a Lover, and no I'm not BO

I'm pretty sure your not BO, but a lover does scare me, and with your information which you barely tell me, it definitely sounds like you being a lover with someone other than me is sadly a possibility. If Kain is your BO lover, you would have kept her active, but if she's Pisco, maybe you are protecting her for some reason or another...

[Kirbypepe]

Not only an investigate can catch Kobayashi, gender observing someone as female narrows down the list quite a lot, considering she was always active in the thread, that always makes an usual target. Maybe it wasn't even pofa, a townie could have gender-observed and unluckily passed wrong the information. Just to confirm it: I knew her action and she knew mine.

Wrong assumption there Hayls, xpon and I didn't exchange PMs during this Round, and about 1/3 of the players alive knew it was Detain as soon as Trickster left jail.

Let's put the hypothesis out there that I asked pofa to injure me, even after Stop called off her lynching at least 9 or 10 hours before phase change occured. Almost everyone alive, and certainly all the BO alive, knows what I can and can't do. If you try to narrow down my possible BO role, like you did cause I'm Gin o/ how is it worth losing the actions of an important BO member a better strategy than injuring a cop? With 7 BOs in the game, the BO obviously expected a vast number of cops, my guess would have been 4-5 if I was asked this question Night 1, so there's absolutely no way it can be more beneficial losing good actions for the BO that taking out a cop's actions for the rest of the game. May I remind you that there was asuspended cop and a Satou that freed Trickster at that point, with Nakamori dead. The cops were out there and the BO knew it.

If it's ok for me to reveal it, I can tell the whole town that Vodka, Pisco and Vermouth are in the game, with 2 other BO members still to be revealed. That's already 60% of the roster left, and if you could stop countering my theories maybe we could get to know more jk jk

Also did Trickster just admit he's BO? :V Flipping the town? :V

I stand by my arguments and will keep insisting to vote Trickster, and I'm sorry if I ever sound mean or with ill intentions Trickie, I know it is your first game and Mafia is a huge complex wall-o-texts rules to try to memorize but in this game I need to get my point across however I can ^^

*skips the first 3 sentences/paragraphs as I have nothing to confirm/deny on that, cause useless =P*

Granted you could catch protect/heals with investigate, the fact that you, Yuriko and Stop knew her action (somewhat) could have helped in determining which role based on getting anyone you are allied with to give you which gender. Knowing gender alone does reduce the list as there are more Male roles in the game than female roles, without putting the two together (both action and gender) an APTX would be a shot in the dark (like most APTX's are sometimes =P). Add that with the will shown earlier, one could immediately determine which role it was for the APTX if they had both gender and action. The BO could have gotten the action via investigate as you say, but without coordinating it with Yuri herself to prove she actually did have the action (unless the BO immediately trusted her if she [or anyone she told] told a BO member) it would have been completely random which is a little less likely.

*skips the next one as well =P*

Losing a BO action (depending on the role) is very very beneficial if the action leads to infiltrating the town alliance (or even creating an alliance if one hasn't been formed yet) because of this, the false sense of being able to trust the injured person, causes people to reveal sensitive information about their role which could ultimately lead to the BO victory. It actually has been used as a viable strategy before and as long as losing the BO action leads them to getting into town alliance which leads to more concrete information than using actions at random, then doing that makes it a way more beneficial manoeuvre than keeping the action (most of the time infiltration is more beneficial than keeping the action regardless of action unless its one that is hard to prove BO like Anokata)

"If it's okay to reveal it" you say, but you being injured wouldn't be able to confirm Vodka is in unless you knew of a trickster prior to being injured and found it out then, not one claim to being tricked has been made the entire game until last phase. Kain could actually be tricked as she claims, but you wouldn't be able to confirm that, and it could have well been a town trickster that tricked Kain. Without you actually being able to determine which you'd only be making an assumption about Vodka, saying Trickster is possible Vodka is an okay way of thinking of it, but like in all the other mafia games in other boards/forums the Mafia members talk through their planning, because of that Trickster, if he was evil (which is still possible), would have known that he had an action because of the planning unless the BO completely didn't check which roles they had, or wanted to keep Vodka hidden for a long time (which is an awkward thing to do for Vodka) for the first night. Pisco is also a really weird claim to make as no proof has been made for and I'm relatively sure (granted I could be wrong) there is little to no way of knowing Pisco is in without Pisco doing something. Meaning that from your list, Vermy is the only one everyone knows about and the other two are assumptions you are making.

I read the flipping the town as he was revealed as town member, but it could be because I watch Yugioh that I read it that way XD =X

[Conia]

I'm pretty sure your not BO, but a lover does scare me, and with your information which you barely tell me, it definitely sounds like you being a lover with someone other than me is sadly a possibility. If Kain is your BO lover, you would have kept her active, but if she's Pisco, maybe you are protecting her for some reason or another...

I'm not looking to protect Kain but more like I think the lynches should be headed towards someone else, I said that Kain could still be BO and I think that some people already know what to do next phase to be able to tell if she's BO or not (If the game doesn't end tonight ) Possibility of Yumi and 2 Lovers surviving this long, without having used LD at all for 11 phases now, is reaaaaaaally slim. If I were a Lover I wouldn't be exposing myself this much either.

Not only an investigate can catch Kobayashi, gender observing someone as female narrows down the list quite a lot, considering she was always active in the thread, that always makes an usual target. Maybe it wasn't even pofa, a townie could have gender-observed and unluckily passed wrong the information. Just to confirm it: I knew her action and she knew mine.

Wrong assumption there Hayls, xpon and I didn't exchange PMs during this Round, and about 1/3 of the players alive knew it was Detain as soon as Trickster left jail.

Let's put the hypothesis out there that I asked pofa to injure me, even after Stop called off her lynching at least 9 or 10 hours before phase change occured. Almost everyone alive, and certainly all the BO alive, knows what I can and can't do. If you try to narrow down my possible BO role, like you did cause I'm Gin o/ how is it worth losing the actions of an important BO member a better strategy than injuring a cop? With 7 BOs in the game, the BO obviously expected a vast number of cops, my guess would have been 4-5 if I was asked this question Night 1, so there's absolutely no way it can be more beneficial losing good actions for the BO that taking out a cop's actions for the rest of the game. May I remind you that there was asuspended cop and a Satou that freed Trickster at that point, with Nakamori dead. The cops were out there and the BO knew it.

If it's ok for me to reveal it, I can tell the whole town that Vodka, Pisco and Vermouth are in the game, with 2 other BO members still to be revealed. That's already 60% of the roster left, and if you could stop countering my theories maybe we could get to know more jk jk

Also did Trickster just admit he's BO? :V Flipping the town? :V

I stand by my arguments and will keep insisting to vote Trickster, and I'm sorry if I ever sound mean or with ill intentions Trickie, I know it is your first game and Mafia is a huge complex wall-o-texts rules to try to memorize but in this game I need to get my point across however I can ^^

*skips the first 3 sentences/paragraphs as I have nothing to confirm/deny on that, cause useless =P*

Granted you could catch protect/heals with investigate, the fact that you, Yuriko and Stop knew her action (somewhat) could have helped in determining which role based on getting anyone you are allied with to give you which gender. Knowing gender alone does reduce the list as there are more Male roles in the game than female roles, without putting the two together (both action and gender) an APTX would be a shot in the dark (like most APTX's are sometimes =P). Add that with the will shown earlier, one could immediately determine which role it was for the APTX if they had both gender and action. The BO could have gotten the action via investigate as you say, but without coordinating it with Yuri herself to prove she actually did have the action (unless the BO immediately trusted her if she [or anyone she told] told a BO member) it would have been completely random which is a little less likely.

*skips the next one as well =P*

Losing a BO action (depending on the role) is very very beneficial if the action leads to infiltrating the town alliance (or even creating an alliance if one hasn't been formed yet) because of this, the false sense of being able to trust the injured person, causes people to reveal sensitive information about their role which could ultimately lead to the BO victory. It actually has been used as a viable strategy before and as long as losing the BO action leads them to getting into town alliance which leads to more concrete information than using actions at random, then doing that makes it a way more beneficial manoeuvre than keeping the action (most of the time infiltration is more beneficial than keeping the action regardless of action unless its one that is hard to prove BO like Anokata)

"If it's okay to reveal it" you say, but you being injured wouldn't be able to confirm Vodka is in unless you knew of a trickster prior to being injured and found it out then, not one claim to being tricked has been made the entire game until last phase. Kain could actually be tricked as she claims, but you wouldn't be able to confirm that, and it could have well been a town trickster that tricked Kain. Without you actually being able to determine which you'd only be making an assumption about Vodka, saying Trickster is possible Vodka is an okay way of thinking of it, but like in all the other mafia games in other boards/forums the Mafia members talk through their planning, because of that Trickster, if he was evil (which is still possible), would have known that he had an action because of the planning unless the BO completely didn't check which roles they had, or wanted to keep Vodka hidden for a long time (which is an awkward thing to do for Vodka) for the first night. Pisco is also a really weird claim to make as no proof has been made for and I'm relatively sure (granted I could be wrong) there is little to no way of knowing Pisco is in without Pisco doing something. Meaning that from your list, Vermy is the only one everyone knows about and the other two are assumptions you are making.

I read the flipping the town as he was revealed as town member, but it could be because I watch Yugioh that I read it that way XD =X

Gender observe would still make it a shot in the dark as you say, but, if I'm not mistaken, observe can go both ways: Age and gender. If the BO used both, or maybe used one and a townie did the other part and let out the info, then it stops being a shot in the dark. Female Adult, leads to Kobayashi, Eri, Satou but the BO knew it was xpon by that point, Jodie, Yumi, I think that's all? The list becomes veeery short, enough to get the correct poison on her. Maybe they had to waste 1 poison before getting it right, but the fact is that they had all the resources to find it out without knowing their action. I could even say that Bourbon could be among us...

The biggest benefit of a BO injuring a BO is getting town credibility and hope to get a good inflitration into alliances. This would be the plan to follow, but take this into account: Ended Day 3, I found out I was injured, and it wasn't until Night 5, just a phase ago, that I actually started to have conversations with players, besides some here and there that I was having from many phases ago. If that was the plan, why didn't I put it into practice so late? My biggest motivation to come out like I have to talk to everyone was because the town lost a lot of members and we were/are in the verge of ending the game with a BO victory. I couldn't have possibly planned as BO that the phases ahead would be favorable enough to wait 48 hours to finally take advantage of losing all my actions. I don't think that adds up. Also I was asking openly for people to contact me those hours I mentioned, and not a single soul came to offer any kind of information That also drove me to shake things up cause I was just standing there with a broken arm and leg just watching townies fall one by one But to insist on it seriously: I couldn't have planned from Day 3 to sacrifice a big part of the BO in terms of actions and then acting so lowsily to it.

I don't know if Vodka is in or out, I pretty much explained my reasoning for believing Trickster is Vodka in my previous posts, and the only thing that you can say is 100% true about them is that I don't have any hard evidence for it, but I cannot ignore all that's been happening around Trickster and recently to Kain, only one, righteous, action not always is better than all the scattered details around the players, and every Mafia player knows that one trick doesn't mean the tricked is BO, one investigation doesn't 100% reveal a murderer, same with SI, and you get the idea. A town trickster that only tricked on Night 5 and skipped the rest of the phases, it can be even more awkward than Vodka doing it, cause at least Vodka may want to stay crimeless. And I've mentioned before how Trickster fits that role of disappeared discombobber with what he has claimed openly and in PMs. And yes the BO would help him with his actions, it's the normal thing to do, but we can be positive that during N1, N2 and N3 there were no actions from him, it's still a mystery if he used it on Night 4 (Tricking the kill arises as possibility) and we can only seem to be sure for Night 5, so saying the BO could help him is true, but there's a bigger truth in that in a lot of phases, he had no actions sent. And regarding the BO roster, I claimed Pisco is in based on numbers and process of elimination summed up with what I got to talk to with the players. Maybe Bribe was used already and no one noticed it if there wasn't an Erase behind it? I actually don't remember if this is possible so I'll stop rambling BELIEVE IN THE HEART OF THE CARDS KIRBY!

[Kirbypepe]

Gender observe would still make it a shot in the dark as you say, but, if I'm not mistaken, observe can go both ways: Age and gender. If the BO used both, or maybe used one and a townie did the other part and let out the info, then it stops being a shot in the dark. Female Adult, leads to Kobayashi, Eri, Satou but the BO knew it was xpon by that point, Jodie, Yumi, I think that's all? The list becomes veeery short, enough to get the correct poison on her. Maybe they had to waste 1 poison before getting it right, but the fact is that they had all the resources to find it out without knowing their action. I could even say that Bourbon could be among us...

The biggest benefit of a BO injuring a BO is getting town credibility and hope to get a good inflitration into alliances. This would be the plan to follow, but take this into account: Ended Day 3, I found out I was injured, and it wasn't until Night 5, just a phase ago, that I actually started to have conversations with players, besides some here and there that I was having from many phases ago. If that was the plan, why didn't I put it into practice so late? My biggest motivation to come out like I have to talk to everyone was because the town lost a lot of members and we were/are in the verge of ending the game with a BO victory. I couldn't have possibly planned as BO that the phases ahead would be favorable enough to wait 48 hours to finally take advantage of losing all my actions. I don't think that adds up. Also I was asking openly for people to contact me those hours I mentioned, and not a single soul came to offer any kind of information That also drove me to shake things up cause I was just standing there with a broken arm and leg just watching townies fall one by one But to insist on it seriously: I couldn't have planned from Day 3 to sacrifice a big part of the BO in terms of actions and then acting so lowsily to it.

I don't know if Vodka is in or out, I pretty much explained my reasoning for believing Trickster is Vodka in my previous posts, and the only thing that you can say is 100% true about them is that I don't have any hard evidence for it, but I cannot ignore all that's been happening around Trickster and recently to Kain, only one, righteous, action not always is better than all the scattered details around the players, and every Mafia player knows that one trick doesn't mean the tricked is BO, one investigation doesn't 100% reveal a murderer, same with SI, and you get the idea. A town trickster that only tricked on Night 5 and skipped the rest of the phases, it can be even more awkward than Vodka doing it, cause at least Vodka may want to stay crimeless. And I've mentioned before how Trickster fits that role of disappeared discombobber with what he has claimed openly and in PMs. And yes the BO would help him with his actions, it's the normal thing to do, but we can be positive that during N1, N2 and N3 there were no actions from him, it's still a mystery if he used it on Night 4 (Tricking the kill arises as possibility) and we can only seem to be sure for Night 5, so saying the BO could help him is true, but there's a bigger truth in that in a lot of phases, he had no actions sent. And regarding the BO roster, I claimed Pisco is in based on numbers and process of elimination summed up with what I got to talk to with the players. Maybe Bribe was used already and no one noticed it if there wasn't an Erase behind it? I actually don't remember if this is possible so I'll stop rambling BELIEVE IN THE HEART OF THE CARDS KIRBY!

Correct Gender Observe could go that way if the BO allied with another Observer to do both Age and Gender, but then the list of possibilities goes to Kobayashi, Eri, Jodie, Yumi, Yoko, Kujou (This after taking to account that both Satou and Kir have died). Of those, aiming for Kobayashi is a little bit of a stretch still because of the fact that the BO wouldn't have known action if only doing Age and Gender. Because of this they had to have at least known action as well. And according to Yuri, only you, Yuriko and Stop knew. Out of that list anyway, Yumi, Eri and Kujou would be the most threating followed by Jodie Yoko, Kobayashi would be the least threating if Bribe hasn't been used. If Bourbon was in then it could explain it as well, and the BO would be able to get the information they need to poison correctly, but that's just speculation. Using just gender observe, you still need to add that in with something else to get the poison correctly unless the BO were willing to lose APTXs shooting random APTXs.

That may be true that there was a delay within the implementing the plan, but it could still done because of the fact that you had allies that you talked to already here and there. The allies that you talked to (that could be now more certain that you are town) could be still giving you information (more so now that you've been injured). Now, you did ask people for information, but keeping in mind the people that are left the majority of them don't tend to give information out to begin with. So using the town panic in order to get information would be the best way to infiltrate the town members in order to get the plan to work. You, being the stalker that you are =P (this is quite funny cause since you and I are the same person I just realised this is technically us arguing with ourselves =P =P XD), would probably be the best person to take advantage of what you know of the play styles of everyone left.

I don't believe that's true, because Vodka attempting to be crimeless would make it so that Vodka doesn't do anything for the entirety of the game until they need to kill. That would basically make it as if Vodka didn't exist for the majority of the game and that person wouldn't be able to do anything but vote, Vodka also wouldn't be able to infiltrate town until Night 2 as Vodka wouldn't have actions that could be proved by investigators. Now if the BO felt confident that they wouldn't need to trick anyone then this plan would work, but without knowing what could happen for the first few phases of the game, not having Vodka do anything would make it more dangerous for the BO to get caught, or even kills not to work unless the are willing to use up their only Bribe early in the game. Town trickster seems more likely anyway as it didn't seem like Trickster was talking to anyone until he mentioned he was detained and asked questions. Granted he could be feigning not knowing and could actually be Vodka. Still the Pisco thing, you do know Bribe isn't attached to Pisco so even if the process of elimination is used, you can't guarantee that Pisco is in. Pisco doesn't need to be in in order for Bribe to be used. And for that case the BO would then have 2 Useless roles that they wanted to keep from doing anything in order to keep them hidden which would limit their possibilities until late game. So I don't think Pisco is in and Vodka is still really questionable.

So because of that going with the only lead we have is still better than going with some action that randomly came up that we can't even prove was the person you are claiming it to be. Did anyone check Trickster actually tricking anyone? One could infer based on what was said on the thread but that's even less trustable than an action returning a result. But even still this entire game is based on finding out whether certain people are town or not and working together, and most of everything gets told only through word of mouth. So I'm going to go with still Lynching Kain as we have something on her.

I still recommend everyone else to vote Kain as well.

[Conia]

Gender observe would still make it a shot in the dark as you say, but, if I'm not mistaken, observe can go both ways: Age and gender. If the BO used both, or maybe used one and a townie did the other part and let out the info, then it stops being a shot in the dark. Female Adult, leads to Kobayashi, Eri, Satou but the BO knew it was xpon by that point, Jodie, Yumi, I think that's all? The list becomes veeery short, enough to get the correct poison on her. Maybe they had to waste 1 poison before getting it right, but the fact is that they had all the resources to find it out without knowing their action. I could even say that Bourbon could be among us...

The biggest benefit of a BO injuring a BO is getting town credibility and hope to get a good inflitration into alliances. This would be the plan to follow, but take this into account: Ended Day 3, I found out I was injured, and it wasn't until Night 5, just a phase ago, that I actually started to have conversations with players, besides some here and there that I was having from many phases ago. If that was the plan, why didn't I put it into practice so late? My biggest motivation to come out like I have to talk to everyone was because the town lost a lot of members and we were/are in the verge of ending the game with a BO victory. I couldn't have possibly planned as BO that the phases ahead would be favorable enough to wait 48 hours to finally take advantage of losing all my actions. I don't think that adds up. Also I was asking openly for people to contact me those hours I mentioned, and not a single soul came to offer any kind of information That also drove me to shake things up cause I was just standing there with a broken arm and leg just watching townies fall one by one But to insist on it seriously: I couldn't have planned from Day 3 to sacrifice a big part of the BO in terms of actions and then acting so lowsily to it.

I don't know if Vodka is in or out, I pretty much explained my reasoning for believing Trickster is Vodka in my previous posts, and the only thing that you can say is 100% true about them is that I don't have any hard evidence for it, but I cannot ignore all that's been happening around Trickster and recently to Kain, only one, righteous, action not always is better than all the scattered details around the players, and every Mafia player knows that one trick doesn't mean the tricked is BO, one investigation doesn't 100% reveal a murderer, same with SI, and you get the idea. A town trickster that only tricked on Night 5 and skipped the rest of the phases, it can be even more awkward than Vodka doing it, cause at least Vodka may want to stay crimeless. And I've mentioned before how Trickster fits that role of disappeared discombobber with what he has claimed openly and in PMs. And yes the BO would help him with his actions, it's the normal thing to do, but we can be positive that during N1, N2 and N3 there were no actions from him, it's still a mystery if he used it on Night 4 (Tricking the kill arises as possibility) and we can only seem to be sure for Night 5, so saying the BO could help him is true, but there's a bigger truth in that in a lot of phases, he had no actions sent. And regarding the BO roster, I claimed Pisco is in based on numbers and process of elimination summed up with what I got to talk to with the players. Maybe Bribe was used already and no one noticed it if there wasn't an Erase behind it? I actually don't remember if this is possible so I'll stop rambling BELIEVE IN THE HEART OF THE CARDS KIRBY!

Correct Gender Observe could go that way if the BO allied with another Observer to do both Age and Gender, but then the list of possibilities goes to Kobayashi, Eri, Jodie, Yumi, Yoko, Kujou (This after taking to account that both Satou and Kir have died). Of those, aiming for Kobayashi is a little bit of a stretch still because of the fact that the BO wouldn't have known action if only doing Age and Gender. Because of this they had to have at least known action as well. And according to Yuri, only you, Yuriko and Stop knew. Out of that list anyway, Yumi, Eri and Kujou would be the most threating followed by Jodie Yoko, Kobayashi would be the least threating if Bribe hasn't been used. If Bourbon was in then it could explain it as well, and the BO would be able to get the information they need to poison correctly, but that's just speculation. Using just gender observe, you still need to add that in with something else to get the poison correctly unless the BO were willing to lose APTXs shooting random APTXs.

That may be true that there was a delay within the implementing the plan, but it could still done because of the fact that you had allies that you talked to already here and there. The allies that you talked to (that could be now more certain that you are town) could be still giving you information (more so now that you've been injured). Now, you did ask people for information, but keeping in mind the people that are left the majority of them don't tend to give information out to begin with. So using the town panic in order to get information would be the best way to infiltrate the town members in order to get the plan to work. You, being the stalker that you are =P (this is quite funny cause since you and I are the same person I just realised this is technically us arguing with ourselves =P =P XD), would probably be the best person to take advantage of what you know of the play styles of everyone left.

I don't believe that's true, because Vodka attempting to be crimeless would make it so that Vodka doesn't do anything for the entirety of the game until they need to kill. That would basically make it as if Vodka didn't exist for the majority of the game and that person wouldn't be able to do anything but vote, Vodka also wouldn't be able to infiltrate town until Night 2 as Vodka wouldn't have actions that could be proved by investigators. Now if the BO felt confident that they wouldn't need to trick anyone then this plan would work, but without knowing what could happen for the first few phases of the game, not having Vodka do anything would make it more dangerous for the BO to get caught, or even kills not to work unless the are willing to use up their only Bribe early in the game. Town trickster seems more likely anyway as it didn't seem like Trickster was talking to anyone until he mentioned he was detained and asked questions. Granted he could be feigning not knowing and could actually be Vodka. Still the Pisco thing, you do know Bribe isn't attached to Pisco so even if the process of elimination is used, you can't guarantee that Pisco is in. Pisco doesn't need to be in in order for Bribe to be used. And for that case the BO would then have 2 Useless roles that they wanted to keep from doing anything in order to keep them hidden which would limit their possibilities until late game. So I don't think Pisco is in and Vodka is still really questionable.

So because of that going with the only lead we have is still better than going with some action that randomly came up that we can't even prove was the person you are claiming it to be. Did anyone check Trickster actually tricking anyone? One could infer based on what was said on the thread but that's even less trustable than an action returning a result. But even still this entire game is based on finding out whether certain people are town or not and working together, and most of everything gets told only through word of mouth. So I'm going to go with still Lynching Kain as we have something on her.

I still recommend everyone else to vote Kain as well.

The BO itself could have done Age+Gender on their own, and Bourbon would successfully trim that list every night. I don't know when Iwa revealed her action to Yuriko or Stop, or however the BO got to know her action, or if they did, but again the BO had enough resources to figure it out, and maybe some poison was wasted, but even if we don't know the number of tries, we can be sure that they scored one. I've heard that there's a suspicion of Vermouth being or claiming being FBI, which besides Observe it can mean that a Stakeout can find actions. If they saw a heal action going around, going after Kobayashi is more than logical, but at this point the possibilities are too many with the little confirmed info we got of the BO. If Iwa had a reason to suspect me, I think she would have made that clear enough.

I had less than a handful of allies, I started talks with many but only a very few of them kept in talks with me, Yuriko, Abs., KL, Trickster... that was all. Only Yuriko was left when I got injured. It's useless to wait those 2 phases, I had nothing to work on and couldn't expect or predict the town to enter panic mode, and I'm still not sure if the town really did panic in the first place. In fact, town got a little better after a BO got lynched, if I had to plan an ideal moment to infiltrate, it was right after pofa's lynch. It would have been a complete wateto not put such a plan to ruin the town in action at the exact moment when the town had a chance of taking the game. I just gotta insist, waiting 48 hours and planning that far ahead that the BO would take a huge lead like they did JUST TO THEN unleash a this secret weapon, it makes no sense for me to do it, you just confirmed you are me so you might as well understand my point Kirbs! DDD

At least Vodka can come out and kill, or it can enter the game when the BO needs it. A town trickster that doesn't trick, is more useless than adding zeros to the left of a natural number. And here's where we differ: Ideally, the BO would use Vodka and his actions, probably every night, but with Trickster I can assure you that was not the case, from his own claims and the fact of being Detained for 2 consecutive nights, his own claims that until Day 4 he didn't know his action(s), that's what can make such an awkward BO plan to be actually what happened. Vodka not tricking wasn't plan, but I believe and I'm trying to explain that it is what happened. And about Pisco I said it went through process of elimination and analyzing the numbers and roles of the game plus what I could talk with other players that makes me believe he is in the game, I also know the BO can use the BS for Bribe so a Bribe kill doesn't exactly mean Pisco is in, and it is a fact that I cannot guarantee he is in the game, it is more of what I'm deducing of who's left in the game. And I mentioned this too, if Pisco is in, maybe his actions have already influenced the game, like an undetected bribe-kill,so it is unlikely that the BO left 2 roles to do nothing for 11 phases now, intentionally or not.

No one checked Tricskter tricking as far as I know, I don't believe anyone thought Trickster would actually be a trickster Why I think he is Vodka I've explained before, Kain is unlikely to be BO (But could still be) and Kain checking Trickster ending in getting tricked plus being accused (My thoughts) quiet rapidly from the start of this phase, when a BO member shouldn't, albeit Vermouth in disguise, have that action at their disposal.

So please I ask, lynch Trickster, and pray that no poison gets through.

tl;dr -> Conia = Kirby :V ABT wins again \o/

[Kirbypepe]

The BO itself could have done Age+Gender on their own, and Bourbon would successfully trim that list every night. I don't know when Iwa revealed her action to Yuriko or Stop, or however the BO got to know her action, or if they did, but again the BO had enough resources to figure it out, and maybe some poison was wasted, but even if we don't know the number of tries, we can be sure that they scored one. I've heard that there's a suspicion of Vermouth being or claiming being FBI, which besides Observe it can mean that a Stakeout can find actions. If they saw a heal action going around, going after Kobayashi is more than logical, but at this point the possibilities are too many with the little confirmed info we got of the BO. If Iwa had a reason to suspect me, I think she would have made that clear enough.

I had less than a handful of allies, I started talks with many but only a very few of them kept in talks with me, Yuriko, Abs., KL, Trickster... that was all. Only Yuriko was left when I got injured. It's useless to wait those 2 phases, I had nothing to work on and couldn't expect or predict the town to enter panic mode, and I'm still not sure if the town really did panic in the first place. In fact, town got a little better after a BO got lynched, if I had to plan an ideal moment to infiltrate, it was right after pofa's lynch. It would have been a complete wateto not put such a plan to ruin the town in action at the exact moment when the town had a chance of taking the game. I just gotta insist, waiting 48 hours and planning that far ahead that the BO would take a huge lead like they did JUST TO THEN unleash a this secret weapon, it makes no sense for me to do it, you just confirmed you are me so you might as well understand my point Kirbs! DDD

At least Vodka can come out and kill, or it can enter the game when the BO needs it. A town trickster that doesn't trick, is more useless than adding zeros to the left of a natural number. And here's where we differ: Ideally, the BO would use Vodka and his actions, probably every night, but with Trickster I can assure you that was not the case, from his own claims and the fact of being Detained for 2 consecutive nights, his own claims that until Day 4 he didn't know his action(s), that's what can make such an awkward BO plan to be actually what happened. Vodka not tricking wasn't plan, but I believe and I'm trying to explain that it is what happened. And about Pisco I said it went through process of elimination and analyzing the numbers and roles of the game plus what I could talk with other players that makes me believe he is in the game, I also know the BO can use the BS for Bribe so a Bribe kill doesn't exactly mean Pisco is in, and it is a fact that I cannot guarantee he is in the game, it is more of what I'm deducing of who's left in the game. And I mentioned this too, if Pisco is in, maybe his actions have already influenced the game, like an undetected bribe-kill,so it is unlikely that the BO left 2 roles to do nothing for 11 phases now, intentionally or not.

No one checked Tricskter tricking as far as I know, I don't believe anyone thought Trickster would actually be a trickster Why I think he is Vodka I've explained before, Kain is unlikely to be BO (But could still be) and Kain checking Trickster ending in getting tricked plus being accused (My thoughts) quiet rapidly from the start of this phase, when a BO member shouldn't, albeit Vermouth in disguise, have that action at their disposal.

So please I ask, lynch Trickster, and pray that no poison gets through.

tl;dr -> Conia = Kirby :V ABT wins again \o/

Yes the BO could have done it over the span of two phases if they had an ally that could do it as well, just as fine. Granted if they had found a heal with Stakeout, that would mean that they would have had to use Pofa's actions only on the one player for the span of the game. (Stake out for the heal, Age Observe and Gender Observe) If they had an ally that could do the other observe then you could split it up to two phases. Not to forget to mention that Stakeout without Followup would only give people a guess no one knows who it was that gave that action. The BO stakeouters don't have Followup unless it is Vermy/Jodie - Camel. So if Bourbon is in, he could detect Kobayashi, with one stake out used, then from there they would have to Observe & Followup the right person in order to get the information. After all of that the BO would have had 1 detect, 2 Observes, 1 Stakeout and Followup to do in order to get the information, and had to be lucky to use all of those actions on Yuri. Yuri said that you knew her role, and you admitted to it. But I'm still not convinced you are town, so the missing link in terms of why she was APTX'd could just as likely be you, or it could be Yuriko, or even Stop. Either one of you could be BO and told pofa to do the gender observe and save yourself a lot of trouble/phases.

But you actually could predict town would enter panic mode, because it could be seen that town didn't have any other role than pofa. After that we got hit hard. We lost one cop. Then the phase afterwards lost yet another cop a healer and Sonoko. The first kill could have been random, as I'm not sure if anyone knew that person was a cop, but the next phase three townies were going down, so losing that many in a day phase would cause a lot of people to panic, with that panic people begin attempting to string together a win. So town panicking during this phase specifically is when you could make your move, which you did =P and it's because I am you that I know you are lying =P and know where you could use words to attempt to trick people =P

You know with this paragraph you only confused me more. You said you didn't have anyone tell you anything, then you said that only Yuriko was left to tell you. So then this whole Vodka being in is just you guessing based on the only trick that has been announced, and that trick was also announced after Kain was pointed out as the lead. Pisco being in also is starting to confuse me as you specifically said what you could talk with other players. The list you pointed out was You, Yuriko, Abs. KL, Trickster. KL is in jail and while I still don't know why, any information given to you recently about Vodka or Pisco can't be from her, since she's you know, in jail, and we haven't had any reason to suspect Vodka or Pisco was in prior to this past phase so KL wouldn't have information about that unless KL was looking for Vodka or Pisco before she was arrested, Trickster was also in jail for the most part, and from what I got on the conversation he hasn't told you much about anything either. You yourself said that you didn't really tell Abs much to begin with, but with that the information about Vodka or Pisco couldn't have come from him. Leaving you and Yuriko, for the most part Yuriko has been quiet, and you well lost your actions so I don't know where you getting the information that the "other" players are coming from. For the most part it seems like if any information is coming to you, it's specifically from Yuriko. Other than that you are saying based on process of elimination, but with that you can't guarantee that any of the other roles are in. Plus we apparently know Korn, Vermouth and Gin??? is in, leaving 4 more BO. We can't say that Vodka isn't in, it's quite possible that he is, but Trickster not sending in an action until day 4 can't automatically make him Vodka. As you said, Ideally the BO would use Vodka to do what they need Vodka to do, and for the most part Trickster if he was BO would know that the BO plans things and then gets information about his role that way. The fact that you said that Vodka not tricking wasn't the plan, means that they would have immediately told Trickster (if he is Vodka) that they wanted him to send the action to the GM, meaning he had to had known, if they never asked him to do a trick that means that the BO never wanted Vodka to do anything which would mean that they didn't attempt to help out Vodka the new player. Pisco if he was in, has no actions to influence the game other than Erase. So he could be in, but at the moment he's as useful as non tricking Vodka, or an Injured BO in terms of influencing the game.

[Conia]

Yes the BO could have done it over the span of two phases if they had an ally that could do it as well, just as fine. Granted if they had found a heal with Stakeout, that would mean that they would have had to use Pofa's actions only on the one player for the span of the game. (Stake out for the heal, Age Observe and Gender Observe) If they had an ally that could do the other observe then you could split it up to two phases. Not to forget to mention that Stakeout without Followup would only give people a guess no one knows who it was that gave that action. The BO stakeouters don't have Followup unless it is Vermy/Jodie - Camel. So if Bourbon is in, he could detect Kobayashi, with one stake out used, then from there they would have to Observe & Followup the right person in order to get the information. After all of that the BO would have had 1 detect, 2 Observes, 1 Stakeout and Followup to do in order to get the information, and had to be lucky to use all of those actions on Yuri. Yuri said that you knew her role, and you admitted to it. But I'm still not convinced you are town, so the missing link in terms of why she was APTX'd could just as likely be you, or it could be Yuriko, or even Stop. Either one of you could be BO and told pofa to do the gender observe and save yourself a lot of trouble/phases.

But you actually could predict town would enter panic mode, because it could be seen that town didn't have any other role than pofa. After that we got hit hard. We lost one cop. Then the phase afterwards lost yet another cop a healer and Sonoko. The first kill could have been random, as I'm not sure if anyone knew that person was a cop, but the next phase three townies were going down, so losing that many in a day phase would cause a lot of people to panic, with that panic people begin attempting to string together a win. So town panicking during this phase specifically is when you could make your move, which you did =P and it's because I am you that I know you are lying =P and know where you could use words to attempt to trick people =P

You know with this paragraph you only confused me more. You said you didn't have anyone tell you anything, then you said that only Yuriko was left to tell you. So then this whole Vodka being in is just you guessing based on the only trick that has been announced, and that trick was also announced after Kain was pointed out as the lead. Pisco being in also is starting to confuse me as you specifically said what you could talk with other players. The list you pointed out was You, Yuriko, Abs. KL, Trickster. KL is in jail and while I still don't know why, any information given to you recently about Vodka or Pisco can't be from her, since she's you know, in jail, and we haven't had any reason to suspect Vodka or Pisco was in prior to this past phase so KL wouldn't have information about that unless KL was looking for Vodka or Pisco before she was arrested, Trickster was also in jail for the most part, and from what I got on the conversation he hasn't told you much about anything either. You yourself said that you didn't really tell Abs much to begin with, but with that the information about Vodka or Pisco couldn't have come from him. Leaving you and Yuriko, for the most part Yuriko has been quiet, and you well lost your actions so I don't know where you getting the information that the "other" players are coming from. For the most part it seems like if any information is coming to you, it's specifically from Yuriko. Other than that you are saying based on process of elimination, but with that you can't guarantee that any of the other roles are in. Plus we apparently know Korn, Vermouth and Gin??? is in, leaving 4 more BO. We can't say that Vodka isn't in, it's quite possible that he is, but Trickster not sending in an action until day 4 can't automatically make him Vodka. As you said, Ideally the BO would use Vodka to do what they need Vodka to do, and for the most part Trickster if he was BO would know that the BO plans things and then gets information about his role that way. The fact that you said that Vodka not tricking wasn't the plan, means that they would have immediately told Trickster (if he is Vodka) that they wanted him to send the action to the GM, meaning he had to had known, if they never asked him to do a trick that means that the BO never wanted Vodka to do anything which would mean that they didn't attempt to help out Vodka the new player. Pisco if he was in, has no actions to influence the game other than Erase. So he could be in, but at the moment he's as useful as non tricking Vodka, or an Injured BO in terms of influencing the game.

That missing link you speak of could be me, Yuriko who I trust is town more than myself, Stop who "caught" pofa, in a way... and anyone who could have slipped info from there. I know I told no one of Iwa's actions, which btw I wanna make clear: I didn't know her role, but her ACTION only, I knew she could heal and I suspect that Yuriko and Stop knew the same as me given that she mentioned us at the same level in her will. That's the people she told her action, which doesn't exactly mean that's the way the BO found out about it (If they did in the first place). We know that names in a will are names in a will, but the deceased one doesn't know the exact way they would die of poisoning, cause if they knew we would be reading it from their will. From the names that the will left, there's only 2 conclusions: The BO spent actions on finding her role, or some info slipped, and this latter option would still include BO members spending actions on her to avoid wasting an APTX.

You are making this overcomplicated to try to explain a logical line of thought So I guess you really are me :V No, it was unpredictable at that point, no townie could know the BO plans, the fact is that nobody knew there would be so many deaths so soon as people still can't explain it right now. I bet not even the BO expected such a favourable outcome after losing an almost saved BO, cause the difference for the pofa lynch was of one vote. The town felt the luck was coming back to them and the BO, who at least recovered Trickster , probably panicked. So, again, the town panicking was unpredictable cause of the situation both parts were in. Not even a positive BO could have expected it, maybe not even the GM I would dare to say. Cause if it was as predictable as you're claiming it was, I didn't see you helping the town recover from this horrible scenario they were about to be staged into

I'll clarify it for you: The people I said I talked to, that list you mention, is prior to my LET'S PM EVERYONE, cause after I did this I finally got to talk to more people a found out more info to put the pieces of this puzzle together, this is why I could form my own list of who I believe is the remaining BO roster. So KL never gave me any info after arrested, Abs. died, Trickster wasn't PMing much back... the only one I talked to from being injured to my mass PM was Yuriko, and even herself was surpised that I talked to no one else during those 48 hours. I can't guarantee that my process of elimination leaves surefire BO roles, I listened to what everyone that PM'd me back had to say and from there I made that list, and also tried to narrow down at least one BO to lynch today, and that someone is Trickster. Not automatically, but I think I've explained the situation well enough to fit into his claims and the claims of other players too. I believe the BO asked him, they probably guided him on the rules and how the game is played, every BO has done that since Round 1 and I'm sure this wasn't an exception. I myself helped Trickster with all I could and his barrage of questions in PMing Vodka not tricking for more than half of the night phases wasn't intentional, I believe that, but it remains a truth that, whoever tricked Kain, didn't trick anyone else on all the past Night 4, with the doubt of Night 4 still in the air. For me that person is Trickster, and should be lynched. Wait wait wait, you have been heavily argumenting that an injured BO has been my whole mastermind plan and now say that an injured BO doesn't influence the game? And Bribe is a powerful ability, Pisco isn't just in the game for erasing will, Bribe can save a whole game and the BO could have already used it, we just have no way of finding out, or well no one has been able to find it so far.

[KainTheVampire]

.... Whoa, so much text o.O *won't bother reading*