Mafia Round 25: What Will You Do For A Will? (BO Wins)

[miikosan]

Why?

Ok so maybe we can do this:

When sherry kills, she gets 1x APTX and she can choose to convert one of the APTXes. So this means she can only convert when she kill.

And for the ID thing I would just leave her as is. Truth to be told, sherry was a pretty useless role until Akonyl changed her abilities.

[Akonyl]

if convert is a killing-only ability, may as well jsut let her say which one she wants when she kills and take out convert, because that does the same thing

but I still don't see why people are freakin out over sherry when even with her in the game, the BO only won due to inactive townies. The BO wins one game and suddenly they have to be slapped back down? :I

[Kleene Onigiri]

I think Sherry is ok the way she is. You usually can't kill so often during a game (and you can't have more than 3 stable APTX at the same time).

What I would maybe change, or add:

Convert APTX
Non-Investigatable
- Role with that action: Sherry
- Night action, can't be covered
- Sherry may choose to convert one of one type of APTX to another type of APTX, but only one per night. So if the BO has 2 Stable and 2 Volatile, she can either convert it so that they have 3 Stable and 1 Volatile, or 1 Stable and 3 Volatile.
- She may not convert APTX so that the BO has more than 3 of any one type of APTX.

It says you can have max 3 of any APTX type. So you can have may 3 volatile and 3 stable with converting.
But, I think you can "increase" those 3 max APTX that way:

You have 2 volatile and 3 stable. (after 1 convert and sherry killing once) then sherry converts one, so 3 volatile and 2 stable. If she kills again, the BO has 3 V and 3 S again. So the BO can use 3 V on townies... then, sherry could convert 1 S into V again, so BO has: 1 V and 2 S
She could kill early again with calvados reload ability. Then it's 1 V and 3 S again.
Thus sherry could give the BO 3+ volatile APTX. Depending how long the game lasts and if calvados is in the game too.
So maybe adding, that you can just injure max 3 townies successfully with Volatile APTX. (if it's hindered, it doesn't count).
But you can still convert the aptx even after 3 injuries. Because then it's like a "storage". If you have 1 volatile and 3 stable. And 1 stable get's lost because of a false identification, you can still convert that Volatile into a stable one.

[Abs.]

All of this won't matter when Sherry is the first BO to be lynched/arrested

[Akonyl]

It says you can have max 3 of any APTX type. So you can have may 3 volatile and 3 stable with converting.
But, I think you can "increase" those 3 max APTX that way:

You have 2 volatile and 3 stable. (after 1 convert and sherry killing once) then sherry converts one, so 3 volatile and 2 stable. If she kills again, the BO has 3 V and 3 S again. So the BO can use 3 V on townies... then, sherry could convert 1 S into V again, so BO has: 1 V and 2 S
She could kill early again with calvados reload ability. Then it's 1 V and 3 S again.
Thus sherry could give the BO 3+ volatile APTX. Depending how long the game lasts and if calvados is in the game too.
So maybe adding, that you can just injure max 3 townies successfully with Volatile APTX. (if it's hindered, it doesn't count).
But you can still convert the aptx even after 3 injuries. Because then it's like a "storage". If you have 1 volatile and 3 stable. And 1 stable get's lost because of a false identification, you can still convert that Volatile into a stable one.

problem with this is:
In your first sentence, you say you have 2 V and 3 S, after sherry kills once. Then she converts another and kills again and has 3 of each, but Calvados never reloaded her (because you say he reloads her later on)

How many phases does this take? Either:
- this first part takes until Night 7 or 8 ,if all the BO are alive, and thus the game's probably already close to over anyway because none of the BO have been caught
- this first part happens a few nights earlier because the BO has been arrested+lynched, in which case the town is at an advantage so it shouldn't be a big deal that one of the few BO left can injure a few people before dying, themselves. Also, by this point, Calvados may be dead anyway.

The issue I see with this argument is that people are gonna say the same thing with the other roles: Calvados can reload Akemi who can thus peek at a new person and have a pretty good probability of being able to find out their identity + APTX them, he can reload vodka and get an extra injury, he can reload Gin which makes the deducers pretty worthless, reload chianti to make protectors and healers worthless, reload tequila to get another successful lynching, etc, and then these arguments will eventually all be considered even though they're inherently independent of each other and only one of them can happen. When Calvados reloads Sherry, the BO isn't getting an extra killing ability, because they're sacrificing having a killing ability on another night.

[Kleene Onigiri]

[7BO and Sherry and Calvados don't die early]
N1: Sherry converts APTX |APTX: 2V 2S
N2: Sherry kills | APTX: 2V 3S
N3: Calvados kills, reloads Sherry; Sherry converts APTX| 3V 2S
N4: Sherry kills | 3V 3S

On night 4 you can theoretically have 3V and 3S already. Sure, you can get a "7th" APTX on night 9 or something, when sherry kills again. But if some BOs are getting arrested or killed, it could be earlier too.
IMO, later in the game such small details could be game breaking. But then again, BO has it harder later on in the game too :V
Hmm~

And I never said that Calvados is too overpowered :/ Or that he would reload every BO :/

[Akonyl]

you didn't, but I was making the point that it almost always happens in discussions because people will argue about different points and then eventually merge them into one possible conclusion. See: Most class vs class discussions on the WoW forums (unless they got better in the past year, which I doubt)

but anyway, fair enough, but in that case you're still massing APTX at the cost of not getting to use any of the other night killing abilities. Similarly, by using Calvados + Pisco, you can erase the bodies of the Night 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 killings in order to create a huge amount of confusion for the town, but then you're not getting additional APTX you could get with sherry, the kill-hiding you could get with Gin, the extra item from Akemi, Anokata's , etc. It's a trade-off and it won't always be the best solution.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Well, it depends on the situation.

Possible that reloading Gin could be more necessarily than reloading Sherry.
But a good point in reloading sherry is getting more APTX. And more APTX will make the BO feel safer in APTXing someone. Since they can convert a APTX back (as long as sherry stays alive).
And I played a lot of rounds where I was BO and we hesitated to use APTX because we didn't want to loose too many at once :V

But like I said, I would keep sherry as she is D: Maybe putting in that small rule in.

[Akonyl]

I don't think that's a bad thing that they don't have to clutch onto their three APTX for dear life if they have sherry, there was a distinct lack of people going "uhg I hate being BO" this round (as there seems to be in the more recent rounds I've been BO :V), so I think that's a success anyway

(tonso said shew as bad at being BO, but I don't recall her saying she hated it, maybe though  :-X)

[lyndsi]

I said i didn't like it but I actually enjoyed being Sherry....I didn't really have to do much....((except an unusual amount of killing/poisoning)) much fun.

[xpon]

congratz BO. you play well.

Pofa .... thanks for saving my life and thanks for listening to my request.... LOL we on the same side now......

but to all player... i am sorry... i really am. i bet you must get bored reading my post and seeing me acting like a boss and ordering people...

i have learn my lesson. i wont ever do that anymore...

but this round is fun. and what more silly is.. i spend half of my time and resource to prove our own allies...... just because i think that AKONYL wont gave that many police in one game. LOL..

really akonyl.. what make you put that many police officer huh?

thanks again for everyone.....

sorry for moho.....

[Akonyl]

stuff:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AWXKSAJP