Mafia Mafia Mafia! Pt. 2! (Game 4: Town wins!)

[Tanner-kun]

@db's:
They Interrogate together. So, if one dies, they can still interrogate, right? And they won't be revealed as a group if 1 of them dies either?

Yes. Yes. It's only revealed that the deceased was Mitsuhiko (or Ayumi or Genta).

I's it possible to have only 1 or 2 DB instead of all 3?

[Callid]

@db's:
They Interrogate together. So, if one dies, they can still interrogate, right? And they won't be revealed as a group if 1 of them dies either?

Yes. Yes. It's only revealed that the deceased was Mitsuhiko (or Ayumi or Genta).

I's it possible to have only 1 or 2 DB instead of all 3?

Of course.
Actually, I think their strength won't change with the number - if there's only one, he's a strong investigator, but three people trusting each other are also really strong. See Game 1.

[TheBlind]

Read it. It's in the spoiler, at the very bottom.

I did. I was making a joke that the DBs have no shown no such ability. Their abilities are ones that cannot be translated into this game. Giving them these abilities is like adding Yoko and giving her the ability to investigate.

[TheBlind]

Of course.
Actually, I think their strength won't change with the number - if there's only one, he's a strong investigator, but three people trusting each other are also really strong. See Game 1.

Instead of trying to force the DBs in this game with misplaced abilities, why not give the FBI agents the ability to work together?(Unless they already have such ability...haven't read ALL of the rules yet, ).

It accomplishes what you are trying to do here, get a group outside the mafia that can coordinate moves for the good side.

[Tanner-kun]

Read it. It's in the spoiler, at the very bottom.

I did. I was making a joke that the DBs have no shown no such ability. Their abilities are ones that cannot be translated into this game. Giving them these abilities is like adding Yoko and giving her the ability to investigate.

True but in the AO's mitsuko or what ever his name is -you know what I'll just call him Mitch like in Case closed- well Mitch shows some deductive ability, but that's not canon

[Callid]

Of course.
Actually, I think their strength won't change with the number - if there's only one, he's a strong investigator, but three people trusting each other are also really strong. See Game 1.

Instead of trying to force the DBs in this game with misplaced abilities, why not give the FBI agents the ability to work together?(Unless they already have such ability...haven't read ALL of the rules yet, ).

It accomplishes what you are trying to do here, get a group outside the mafia that can coordinate moves for the good side.

Actually their true strength in the series is that they trust each other. Indefinitely. That's different with the FBI. The rules are meant to evoke the same from the players. The investigation is only in case there are less of them. See above.

P.S.:
We might even add Conan in to them. So they are actually using Conan's ability then. But Mitsuhiko isn't bad either.

[TheBlind]

Actually their true strength in the series is that they trust each other. Indefinitely. That's different with the FBI. The rules are meant to evoke the same from the players. The investigation is only in case there are less of them. See above.

P.S.:
We might even add Conan in to them. So they are actually using Conan's ability then. But Mitsuhiko isn't bad either.

I get what you are trying to do but not the logic you are using to justify it. If we are going to use "trust" and the canon as a means to establish abilities, then shouldn't the same apply to ALL characters?

If Ran and Shinichi are in the same game, shouldn't the Shinichi player be told who is playing Ran?
Ran would trust Shinichi with anything including her life, so with your logic, this rule should apply to Ran. Same applies to Jodie/Akai, Sonoko/Makoto, Eri/Kogoro, and more. All these characters have shown to trust their partner beyond a doubt..so why should the DBs get the special treatment as well get abilities that extremely overestimate their canon?

I still say if you want an organized group on the town side, allow the FBI to work together. The only member that has shown signs he doesn't trust others is Akai..and that's because he's Akai. So I don't see why "trust" would be an issue..especially when Vermouth/Kir is allowed to work with Gin..and he hates both of them. .

[TheBlind]

True but in the AO's mitsuko or what ever his name is -you know what I'll just call him Mitch like in Case closed- well Mitch shows some deductive ability, but that's not canon

I agree, AO Mitsuhiko has a great deduction ability for a child his age but sadly, that is AO. Regular Mitsuhiko only stands out because he's the only DB to actually use his brain effectively without hoping "goodwill" will save the day, . These kids should not enter this murderous village, that would be like sending a lamb into a lion's den.

Also, I don't see how one DB dying makes them stronger..shouldn't it be the opposite as I'm pretty sure that since they are children, if they saw one of them "die"..they would freak out. Not to mention that adding three players that know of each other tips the scale too much in favor of the town. The B.O. cannot even use it as a cover as two other members would have to collaborate that story by stating they are the other two...and guess what happens when one is unmasked? A quick game over for them.

[Callid]

I get what you are trying to do but not the logic you are using to justify it. If we are going to use "trust" and the canon as a means to establish abilities, then shouldn't the same apply to ALL characters?

If Ran and Shinichi are in the same game, shouldn't the Shinichi player be told who is playing Ran?
Ran would trust Shinichi with anything including her life, so with your logic, this rule should apply to Ran. Same applies to Jodie/Akai, Sonoko/Makoto, Eri/Kogoro, and more. All these characters have shown to trust their partner beyond a doubt..so why should the DBs get the special treatment as well get abilities that extremely overestimate their canon?

I still say if you want an organized group on the town side, allow the FBI to work together. The only member that has shown signs he doesn't trust others is Akai..and that's because he's Akai. So I don't see why "trust" would be an issue..especially when Vermouth/Kir is allowed to work with Gin..and he hates both of them. .

With the exception of Jodie/Akai, all the ones you listed are couples. And they are in the game - and will trust each other.
And the difference is that trust isn't what makes the FBI special, but their investigative powers. Therefore they are investigators.
The police is indeed not good at deductions, but it's still the thing they are best at (apart from arresting, but that's an ability as well).
Ai is special because of her scent - and that's her ability. While she can also deduce just as good as anyone from the police, she doesn't get the according abilities - because that's not the most special thing about her.
Ran isn't special because her trust in Shinichi - all the couples have that - but her most outstanding ability is her readiness to sacrifice herself for others (345!). And that's her ability.
And the most special about the DBs is their trust towards each other (mainly because they don't have anything else overshadowing it). And therefore it's their ability.

I hope you understand what I mean by now.

I agree, AO Mitsuhiko has a great deduction ability for a child his age but sadly, that is AO. Regular Mitsuhiko only stands out because he's the only DB to actually use his brain effectively without hoping "goodwill" will save the day, . These kids should not enter this murderous village, that would be like sending a lamb into a lion's den.

Also, I don't see how one DB dying makes them stronger..shouldn't it be the opposite as I'm pretty sure that since they are children, if they saw one of them "die"..they would freak out. Not to mention that adding three players that know of each other tips the scale too much in favor of the town. The B.O. cannot even use it as a cover as two other members would have to collaborate that story by stating they are the other two...and guess what happens when one is unmasked? A quick game over for them.

They don't enter the village. They live there, and the murderers enter...
And it does not really make them stronger. It's only that if we start with less, the other players will get other roles - and Ayumi/Genta+Araide might be stronger than Ayumi/Genta/Mitsuhiko (as you can clearly see when you try to figure out how much of a loss Araide's death is in the first case and Mitsuhiko's in the second).

Also, don't forget that those three players you mentioned are almost ability-less. The town effectively uses two players with abilities - maybe important ones.

[Schillok]

I guess I want to try this game as well. Sounds like fun, though quite complicated. Hope I will grasp the concept in time...
A quick repetition of the rules would in deed be nice, as would be some basic "statistics", for example the expected number of B.O, if everyone has a special role and so on.

Not to mention that adding three players that know of each other tips the scale too much in favor of the town. The B.O. cannot even use it as a cover as two other members would have to collaborate that story by stating they are the other two...and guess what happens when one is unmasked? A quick game over for them.

The question is: Is it a good idea for the DB to tell their role?
The advantage would be that the town side does not waste energy into investigating them (not too much anyway) and can concentrate on the other characters. (Which would also fit their role in the manga since neither the police nor the FBI does ever consider them as suspects.) And they will probably not fall victim to lynching.
But the disadvantage is that also the BO will know their roles and can concentrate on the OTHER townpeople. Why waste 3 nights on the kids who all together have only one single power during the day while the number of other unknown characters - with potentially MUCH more dangerous abilities - just decreased since you know the (rather harmless) roles of 3 players now?

Since I don't know much about the game I don't know. But their role - the advantage that they know each other and that they can get others to trust them - seems to contain quite a strategic dept. And it is not far from their actual role in the manga.

On a second thought... the power to find out the roles of other players combined with their trust could make them eerily powerful. I assume it is possible to talk with all the players during the day. If the DB just learned about the role of a BO and they tell everyone... would that not make everyone vote for that person?

In that case I would suggest a slight modification in their day-power: Instead of interrogation they would merely be questioning their target. So instead of "BO" or "non-BO" they could for example only get the answer "Suspicious" or "Not Suspicious". Not only BO are suspicious, but also the FBI. The other people would freely speak about who they are and what their job is towards the children, they would therefore be not suspicious.
That should weaken their power a little bit.   

[TheBlind]

And the most special about the DBs is their trust towards each other (mainly because they don't have anything else overshadowing it). And therefore it's their ability.

I hope you understand what I mean by now.

Like I said, I get what you are trying to do, just not the logic you are using to justify it.
Many roles already in the game have a more established and stronger sense of trust for their partner than the DBs, so they would be more deserving of such an ability.

Then there is a problem is creates an unfair advantage for the town. Having three players start out knowing of one another makes it harder for the BAD to blend in and also opens the door for role abuse. Three players knowing of each other with access to addition abilities(investigation) when one dies is just setting it up for a quick "process of elimination" game. I don't think one side should get stronger when one of their own dies. I say we keep those demons far far away from this game as it opens the flood gates.

[TheBlind]

On a second thought... the power to find out the roles of other players combined with their trust could make them eerily powerful. I assume it is possible to talk with all the players during the day. If the DB just learned about the role of a BO and they tell everyone... would that not make everyone vote for that person?

In that case I would suggest a slight modification in their day-power: Instead of interrogation they would merely be questioning their target. So instead of "BO" or "non-BO" they could for example only get the answer "Suspicious" or "Not Suspicious". Not only BO are suspicious, but also the FBI. The other people would freely speak about who they are and what their job is towards the children, they would therefore be not suspicious.
That should weaken their power a little bit.     

, Only power they would have is knowing who the other two are. Giving three little kids the power to investigate and "interogate" in a town being plagued by killers is just ludicrous....LUDICROUS I SAY!

[Tanner-kun]

On a second thought... the power to find out the roles of other players combined with their trust could make them eerily powerful. I assume it is possible to talk with all the players during the day. If the DB just learned about the role of a BO and they tell everyone... would that not make everyone vote for that person?

In that case I would suggest a slight modification in their day-power: Instead of interrogation they would merely be questioning their target. So instead of "BO" or "non-BO" they could for example only get the answer "Suspicious" or "Not Suspicious". Not only BO are suspicious, but also the FBI. The other people would freely speak about who they are and what their job is towards the children, they would therefore be not suspicious.
That should weaken their power a little bit.   

, Only power they would have is knowing who the other two are. Giving three little kids the power to investigate and "interogate" in a town being plagued by killers is just ludicrous....LUDICROUS I SAY!

I agree with the blind.

[Tanner-kun]

@schillok

here are some of the basic rules to play if you need them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_%28party_game%29

[Sakina]

So Schillok, I take it you are in as well?  Eeexcellent!  Now we have a record number of players.