Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Edogawa4869]

Well, since Kir is a spy for the Town, I don't think I'd be stretching the imagination too far by giving her an ability similar to a house search (without all the police failure consequences, of course).

However, there could be a chance that she got caught.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to house search  >:(

OK, just spitballing ideas!
*crawls to a lonely emo corner (as my friends would call it)*

[Abs.]

House search IMO is already very powerful

- It makes the BO second-guess whether to use their special abilities or not

- It arrests people who haven't even killed anyone

- It proves a trustworthy ally in the case it fails

[Edogawa4869]

*comes out of corner* Ok, then.  In response to the second comment, however, as Akonyl said earlier...

As far as I know, generally (though not always) BO aren't arrested for killing people, they're arrested for slanderings/discombobulations/erasings/stealings/etc.

Sure, BO have been arrested for it before (and my first arrest was for a killing), but as the games get larger and larger, the chances of finding out who killed who is pretty slim.

Did you have any ideas as to what Kir should do?

[Detective Tommy]

numabuchi was in the BO, and specifically doesn't have a scent in the series, so I would imagine her scent thing only applies to people who are higher-up in the organization or something.

Okay, since Kir has a interrogation result of BO, I agree that maybe the no scent thing would be good.
Of course, she could still be Akemi.

maybe, indicating that they're in the game or something?

No, I mean that if she follows her parents. Instead of receiving "scent or no scent" she can receive a tape. Of course that would automatically give away the fact that they're BO... So I don't really think my idea is good...

why, outta curiosity? To me, the ability to assign one person who doesn't have any special abilities (like sniping/erasing) to do killings doesn't seem all that good to me, really (hence giving him the whole hide ability as well)

Wait, so you're saying you don't like his night ability either?
If not, when he's in the game. None of the other players have to kill until he's dead. I just thought it would make arresting harder.
Yes, I know that slandering, disguises, etc etc can be arrested for too.

as far as I know, generally(though not always) BO aren't arrested for killing people, they're arrested for slanderings/discombobulations/erasings/stealings/etc.

Sure, BO have been arrested it before (and my first arrest was for a killing), but as the games get larger and larger, the chances of finding out who killed who is pretty slim.

That's true. So I guess he could keep that ability..

Also, for Kir, I'm sort of wondering why her tell-people-who-BO-are ability is needed, as theoretically she's already better than an okiya most of the time, who spends his time searching for gin/vermouth/bourbon/other BOs rather than first aiding people, as the case seems to be for okiya in most rounds, who has no such ability to help him get out the information that BO member X is in the game.

Well, if she has the info on which BO are in the game - then her ability will help her release info without being poisoned.
But what other ability do you think she should have?

Maybe she can kill one BO member one time per game?

[Detective Tommy]

She could be given a secondary ability (like okiya's first aid) so that she can "get in on the action". The only question is what to give her, without just slapping her with investigation.

Please no more investigations. Her role would be pretty boring.

Well, since Kir is a spy for the Town, I don't think I'd be stretching the imagination too far by giving her an ability similar to a house search (without all the police failure consequences, of course).

However, there could be a chance that she got caught.

House Search (without the auto arrest) is possible. But if she's wrong - does she get arrested? or lose her abilities like Megure?
Megure has 3 abilities. If Kir is given House Search with the same consequences as Megure's HS, then shouldn't she have at least 2 abilities?

[Akonyl]

why, outta curiosity? To me, the ability to assign one person who doesn't have any special abilities (like sniping/erasing) to do killings doesn't seem all that good to me, really (hence giving him the whole hide ability as well)

Wait, so you're saying you don't like his night ability either?
If not, when he's in the game. None of the other players have to kill until he's dead. I just thought it would make arresting harder.
Yes, I know that slandering, disguises, etc etc can be arrested for too.

I like it, but not to the extent that that should be the only thing his character has. Early game, he can be used to make the other BO not have to commit crimes early on, and latre game he can be assigned to not kill so that the other BOs with killing powers get to use theirs more often. So, it's useful, but as a sole ability I think it's a bit weak.

as far as I know, generally(though not always) BO aren't arrested for killing people, they're arrested for slanderings/discombobulations/erasings/stealings/etc.

Sure, BO have been arrested it before (and my first arrest was for a killing), but as the games get larger and larger, the chances of finding out who killed who is pretty slim.

That's true. So I guess he could keep that ability..

Also, for Kir, I'm sort of wondering why her tell-people-who-BO-are ability is needed, as theoretically she's already better than an okiya most of the time, who spends his time searching for gin/vermouth/bourbon/other BOs rather than first aiding people, as the case seems to be for okiya in most rounds, who has no such ability to help him get out the information that BO member X is in the game.

Well, if she has the info on which BO are in the game - then her ability will help her release info without being poisoned.
But what other ability do you think she should have?

Maybe she can kill one BO member one time per game?

It'll help release info, but again I ask why she needs the ability when Okiya doesn't need it.

getting to auto-kill a BO is a bit too powerful imo.

---

Also, regarding house arrests:

even though he's already dead, I'm going to say that I dislike Megure and think he should be taken down a notch. Basically, I hate the fact that he is a policeman, but just blatantly better. For almost all other roles, they're a mix-and-match type thing, where you have drawbacks and advantages compared to other characters, however if you're megure, you're inherently better than all other police officers, because you have all their abilities, plus house search. One role should not be able to almost singlehandedly win games, as was the case with Beastly as Megure in that one game where he got like a million arrests.

Now, I dunno exactly how I'd nerf him, but I think it should be done sometime in the future. Perhaps Megure's ability to perform normal arrests could be taken away, so that his only method of arrest was via house search?

[Abs.]

How about just giving Kir:

Know the BO roles (and therefore the number)
Observe
Interrogation result: BO
Scent: none


Re Megure:
The failed house search taking him almost completely out of the game balances it, imo

[Akonyl]

How about just giving Kir:

Know the BO roles (and therefore the number)
Observe
Interrogation result: BO
Scent: none


Re Megure:
The failed house search taking him almost completely out of the game balances it, imo

I still don't think it does, considering even if the ability has a downside, the fact that he has it still makes him far superior to all the other officers.

You said yourself that it was a powerful ability.

[Detective Tommy]

I like it, but not to the extent that that should be the only thing his character has. Early game, he can be used to make the other BO not have to commit crimes early on, and latre game he can be assigned to not kill so that the other BOs with killing powers get to use theirs more often. So, it's useful, but as a sole ability I think it's a bit weak.

Well, I guess if I were BO, I would want a stronger team... What would his other ability be?

It'll help release info, but again I ask why she needs the ability when Okiya doesn't need it.

getting to auto-kill a BO is a bit too powerful imo.

I suggested the ability - because I couldn't think of anyone else.
Well Okiya has 2 abilities, so being able to release info too would be over powerful.
But if Kir only have 1 ability - to release info, it might not be a bad idea..

Auto-Kill is way too powerful... Unless she's only allowed the ability once per game. The maybe we can put restriction on it somehow?

Also, regarding house arrests:

even though he's already dead, I'm going to say that I dislike Megure and think he should be taken down a notch. Basically, I hate the fact that he is a policeman, but just blatantly better. For almost all other roles, they're a mix-and-match type thing, where you have drawbacks and advantages compared to other characters, however if you're megure, you're inherently better than all other police officers, because you have all their abilities, plus house search. One role should not be able to almost singlehandedly win games, as was the case with Beastly as Megure in that one game where he got like a million arrests.

Now, I dunno exactly how I'd nerf him, but I think it should be done sometime in the future. Perhaps Megure's ability to perform normal arrests could be taken away, so that his only method of arrest was via house search?

As Abs said, the consequences of his house arrest failing - results in his role being told. I say it evens out as well.

[Abs.]

I still don't think it does, considering even if the ability has a downside, the fact that he has it still makes him far superior to all the other officers.

You said yourself that it was a powerful ability.

^That was when there was crazy talk like "give her house search but with no penalty LOL"

Reduce him to Investigate 1?

@Tommy

That was changed.  No one's role gets told anymore until they die.

[Detective Tommy]

How about just giving Kir:

Know the BO roles (and therefore the number)
Observe
Interrogation result: BO
Scent: none


Re Megure:
The failed house search taking him almost completely out of the game balances it, imo

I still don't think it does, considering even if the ability has a downside, the fact that he has it still makes him far superior to all the other officers.

You said yourself that it was a powerful ability.

I think it does.
But if you do take out house arrest: I suggest you give him James' same ability.
To know which police are in the game (not including Vermouth/Kid in disguise)

Commi (Satou) nomemory (Vermouth=Takagi), Conia (Kid=Chiba)

Megure will know Satou is in the game...
I also have a question: Will James be told Jodie is in the game - if Vermouth is disguised as Jodie?

[Detective Tommy]

Reduce him to Investigate 1?

@Tommy

That was changed.  No one's role gets told anymore until they die.

Investigate 1? If that's the case, I think he should be given James same ability...
To investigate the past...

And thanks for the info, didn't know that. xD

[Edogawa4869]

How about just giving Kir:

Know the BO roles (and therefore the number)
Observe
Interrogation result: BO
Scent: none


Re Megure:
The failed house search taking him almost completely out of the game balances it, imo

I still don't think it does, considering even if the ability has a downside, the fact that he has it still makes him far superior to all the other officers.

You said yourself that it was a powerful ability.

I think it does.
But if you do take out house arrest: I suggest you give him James' same ability.
To know which police are in the game (not including Vermouth/Kid in disguise)

Commi (Satou) nomemory (Vermouth=Takagi), Conia (Kid=Chiba)

Megure will know Satou is in the game...
I also have a question: Will James be told Jodie is in the game - if Vermouth is disguised as Jodie?

FBI Leader - James Black
- At the start of the game, the FBI Leader is told how many subordinates (Jodie, Akai, Camel) are in the game. This includes characters disguised as the subordinates.

As for the discussion on the House Arrest powers, I looked over the rules and I think that it's a powerful Action with a power-crippling downside if you guess wrongly...

[Detective Tommy]

How about just giving Kir:

Know the BO roles (and therefore the number)
Observe
Interrogation result: BO
Scent: none


Re Megure:
The failed house search taking him almost completely out of the game balances it, imo

I still don't think it does, considering even if the ability has a downside, the fact that he has it still makes him far superior to all the other officers.

You said yourself that it was a powerful ability.

I think it does.
But if you do take out house arrest: I suggest you give him James' same ability.
To know which police are in the game (not including Vermouth/Kid in disguise)

Commi (Satou) nomemory (Vermouth=Takagi), Conia (Kid=Chiba)

Megure will know Satou is in the game...
I also have a question: Will James be told Jodie is in the game - if Vermouth is disguised as Jodie?

FBI Leader - James Black
- At the start of the game, the FBI Leader is told how many subordinates (Jodie, Akai, Camel) are in the game. This includes characters disguised as the subordinates.

As for the discussion on the House Arrest powers, I looked over the rules and I think that it's a powerful Action with a power-crippling downside if you guess wrongly...

Thanks for the correction.
Well, If Megure loses his HA, then he should be given the list of subordinates.

Also, I still think it's currently balanced...

[Akonyl]

While it's true that the downside to misusing a house arrest is pretty big, I still don't like the fact that there's no reason to prefer to be takagi/shiratori/chiba over megure, which is inherently bad in my opinion, as he's the only role in the game to be like that. This used to be the case with Akai vs Jodie/Camel, but Jodie/Camel were changed because they were blatantly inferior (also, because there were too many investigators, which is also the case with the police).