Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[xpon]

how about the bomb just to make the selected role or the whole household injured so they cant use their abillty for 2 phase...

[CTU]

how about the bomb just to make the selected role or the whole household injured so they cant use their abillty for 2 phase...

Sounds good

[Detective Tommy]

Okay..
1) Which role gets the bomb? Or does a random player get chosen to receive the bomb?
2) How many bombs does the person get and does it varie?
3) Maybe we should put a bomb character in the game? That can specialize in bombing and defusing. Like Satou's first crush/love from the bomb defuse division or whatever it's called.
4) Is the bomb placed during the day or night?

I really like this idea, and I think only a TOWN can get it.
The BO has enough killing power, day and night.

[CTU]

Okay..
1) Which role gets the bomb? Or does a random player get chosen to receive the bomb?
2) How many bombs does the person get and does it varie?
3) Maybe we should put a bomb character in the game? That can specialize in bombing and defusing. Like Satou's first crush/love from the bomb defuse division or whatever it's called.
4) Is the bomb placed during the day or night?

I really like this idea, and I think only a TOWN can get it.
The BO has enough killing power, day and night.

I was thinking it would be an ORG thing since bombing is kinda evil and up the ORG ally tho if you can think of how it could work for the town that might be cool

and
2: I think it should verry like APTX
3: Good idea so we can add a new char
4: depends on when it is set

[Detective Tommy]

Okay..
1) Which role gets the bomb? Or does a random player get chosen to receive the bomb?
2) How many bombs does the person get and does it varie?
3) Maybe we should put a bomb character in the game? That can specialize in bombing and defusing. Like Satou's first crush/love from the bomb defuse division or whatever it's called.
4) Is the bomb placed during the day or night?

I really like this idea, and I think only a TOWN can get it.
The BO has enough killing power, day and night.

I was thinking it would be an ORG thing since bombing is kinda evil and up the ORG ally tho if you can think of how it could work for the town that might be cool

and
2: I think it should verry like APTX
3: Good idea so we can add a new char
4: depends on when it is set

1) But the BO can already kill at night. Also, they can lynch vote kill and APTX in the day... Should we really give them another extra kill per night or day?

2) Same. I think the person (role) should set the bomb in the day. And it goes off a night. If the bomber is lynched in the day, the night bomb still goes off. And if it kills the BO (that is ordered to kill) that night, nobody dies.
For example: Detective Tommy is the bomber. During the day, I place the bomb in Kleene's car. If I'm lynched, the bomb still goes off at night and Kleene dies (He could be BO or Town). And if Kleene was BO and suppose to kill, the killing doesn't work.

3) Yeah. It can be the bomber from movie 1, or the bomb defuse division (Sato's first love) from the episodes.. Or another bomber.

4) I think the character the bomb is planted on, should be chosen in the morning.
And the person with the bomb, gets killed at night.

[CTU]

Okay..
1) Which role gets the bomb? Or does a random player get chosen to receive the bomb?
2) How many bombs does the person get and does it varie?
3) Maybe we should put a bomb character in the game? That can specialize in bombing and defusing. Like Satou's first crush/love from the bomb defuse division or whatever it's called.
4) Is the bomb placed during the day or night?

I really like this idea, and I think only a TOWN can get it.
The BO has enough killing power, day and night.

I was thinking it would be an ORG thing since bombing is kinda evil and up the ORG ally tho if you can think of how it could work for the town that might be cool

and
2: I think it should verry like APTX
3: Good idea so we can add a new char
4: depends on when it is set

1) But the BO can already kill at night. Also, they can lynch vote kill and APTX in the day... Should we really give them another extra kill per night or day?

2) Same. I think the person (role) should set the bomb in the day. And it goes off a night. If the bomber is lynched in the day, the night bomb still goes off. And if it kills the BO (that is ordered to kill) that night, nobody dies.
For example: Detective Tommy is the bomber. During the day, I place the bomb in Kleene's car. If I'm lynched, the bomb still goes off at night and Kleene dies (He could be BO or Town). And if Kleene was BO and suppose to kill, the killing doesn't work.

3) Yeah. It can be the bomber from movie 1, or the bomb defuse division (Sato's first love) from the episodes.. Or another bomber.

4) I think the character the bomb is planted on, should be chosen in the morning.
And the person with the bomb, gets killed at night.

Sounds good

[Detective Tommy]

Thanks
Let's see if they will put it in the game.

Do you think there should be any fixes or anything?

[CTU]

I can't think of any

[Detective Tommy]

I can't think of any

Let's see if it'll be in the game.

[CTU]

I can't think of any

Let's see if it'll be in the game.

I won't add it to this game..first time GM'ing so I'd like to make sure I can do it without messing up to badly

[Schillok]

I think that'a good idea. I mean... games are already pretty short, no need to make them even shorter with things (and people) exploding left and right...

[Detective Tommy]

I can't think of any

Let's see if it'll be in the game.

I won't add it to this game..first time GM'ing so I'd like to make sure I can do it without messing up to badly

Oh okay, no problem.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Well.. yes. KID and Eisuke are the only townies that can be arrested (at the moment).

And as it was said before: Auto-arresting happens automatically once a police member knows for sure that a certain player is KID. It will not work on any other characters (like BO for example). It will not use up the normal arrest each police officer can try each day/night.
A player claiming to be kid is not enough. Only in a few situations - for example investigating the KID player stealing when it is known that there is no Akemi or finding out his disguise when there is no more Vermouth in the game will get him auto-arrested. Or maybe by a dream. Depends on a GM in the end.
Anyway, the KID-player should stay "fair" and "in character" anyway. So not admitting his role openly or to a player that might be police.


Eri is... pretty much useless. Like I expect her she would be in a real confrontation with the BO if it were to happen in the manga. Forget about her "lawsuit", it will be useful only in very few situations. Similar to her "Voice of Reason" that can stop a lynching once per game - it can be very useful in some situations but in some games it might not be needed at all. Like the real Eri the player having her role should more rely on his/her brains, not on his/her powers.


Something completely different:
Can we change how healing works?

Saving a townie is already strong enough. No reason to expose the mafia member trying to kill as well. So - when a player is successfully healed can we make it that the town will not learn the identity of the attacker?
To compensate for the loss I suggest that a player threated by "first aid" will now be "injured" - similar to Ran. That player would not be able to use his/her abilities anymore, but can still participate in the lynch voting (and talk freely, of course). Such an injured player will not die the next day anymore.

I think that would be better. We can leave the protectors the way they are now. They have certain disadvantages (getting injured/flaying away) when they protect to compensate for the advantage of learning the attackers identity and they can't protect themselves.

although I did remove the finding out the ORG member if it was heal instead (although I am sure that is how it started since I have been healed before and never learned who attacked me

oh wow, yeah I definitely didn't notice that the current rules have araide-healing as letting you know the identity, I'm definitely against that.

I still don't think we should really be changing the first aid ability.

You change the rules when you have a reason to, and so far I don't think anyone has ever successfully used first aid on anyone.

Same here. Healing and First Aid shouldn't be changed.

well AFAIK healing never shown who was the ORG member that heals (first aid did, but caused death at the end of the next phase)

so should First aid still lead to death, but learning the ID of the ORG member? Or let the person live, but keep then from using there abilities for a set time?

Option 1 please

I like option 1, as it makes it basically a version of sonoko's ability that can be switched around between people, without the getting-to-know the person part.

Well since I never changed it it is still there

although I did remove the finding out the ORG member if it was heal instead (although I am sure that is how it started since I have been healed before and never learned who attacked me

I still don't think we should really be changing the first aid ability.

You change the rules when you have a reason to, and so far I don't think anyone has ever successfully used first aid on anyone.

Same here. Healing and First Aid shouldn't be changed.

well AFAIK healing never shown who was the ORG member that heals (first aid did, but caused death at the end of the next phase)

so should First aid still lead to death, but learning the ID of the ORG member? Or let the person live, but keep then from using there abilities for a set time?

Option 1 please

I like option 1, as it makes it basically a version of sonoko's ability that can be switched around between people, without the getting-to-know the person part.

as for the bomb, I think we should leave it out for now. We should be trying to get a more stable set of rules that works imo, not adding in new things and switching things up every round. That's what the random roles are for.

but almost everybody else added stuff so I was hopping to make a change to...

but I do want to change one thing

a wrong house search will only cause a 24 hour suspension like a wrong arrest, but since there is a chance that might not even matter at all

@arrestig/auto-arresting:

Auto arresting just works on KID (that's how I handled it).
It was done like that so KID can't reveal his true role to anyone. Because he is wanted by the police. BO players on the other hand aren't directly wanted by the police. But if they make a crime they can be arrested of course. But the player himself has to make that arresting order.

This was also done so that the police has to think twice if he'll investigate "disguise" or "stealing" too. Because he could accidentally auto-arrest KID although he doesn't want that. And if there wouldn't be auto arrest, then town people would never be arrested too (and it's funnier if a BO in prison can claim to be a townie *looks at Abs.*)

And if he finds out that someone killed someone etc. then the police would arrest that person anyway (so no auto-arrest needed. Auto-arrest would take out that BO member 1 phase earlier. And that could be deciding for the BO winning or the town winning.)

So basically what schillok said :3

There was also some questions from Abs. Like when someone makes a fake arrest with Black Suitcase. Question was if there would be an announcement that a police made a false arrest and was suspended. But since the BO aren't police and that arrest was just fake, then there wouldn't be an arrest, no info if that one did that crime (like finding out if someone is Eisuke (tricking) or KID (disguise/stealing) and no announcement that this BO was suspended (lol).

Another question was, if a BO can be arrested for a fake stealing. I said no since it was considered fake/tricked. So that action was never done actually (since that person can't steal something anyway) and thus can't be arrested for that.

There were some other questions too. From conia about the stealing. But I don't remember it 100% and dunno what I answered for 100% XD. Either I post the PMs with my answers  or conia, abs etc. ask the questions again. Since I didn't add it to the rules. (need to look up the PMs. Didn't do that yet D:)
Ctu doesn't have to follow my answers/rules ;p. It's just so that the questions will be cleared beforehand for the next round XD

And  have an idea for Eri too. Because Akonyl asked if he can identify Abs. as Vodka/Eisuke. I thought about that and an arrested person is handled the same as a dead person. And I found it strange id Genta would go into the prison, visiting Vodka and looking at him. Prison is not a zoo and you can't watch the criminals! XD Or should we add a "Don't feed the criminals" - sign to the prison? lol
Anyway. Instead Eri could get a ability where she can "figure out the role that was arrested". So she can do that on on night. And in case she finds out it was KID she can free him the next night.
She also can't tell if that person is a BO officially. Otherwise she's claiming her role in public and will be killed with APTX. So that wouldn't be too powerful either.


@healing/first aid:
I dunno how it was. But when I made the roles/rule list, I copy pasted a lot. So I didn't change the healing into revealing the identity of the attacker. It was like that before in a round.

But I like it when healing doesn't reveal the attackers identity.
First Aid should reveal the identity when the person dies a phase later.
If he get's wounded (like ran) then it shouldn't reveal it. Or maybe just tell what role (Vermouth or Gin etc) it was (and not which player).


@house search:
I thought about changing it too after I changed arresting.
But giving it a 24h(2 phases) penalty instead of having Megure revealed isn't good imo.
Because if you succeed, then you'll find out a BO and can arrest him/lynch him. But if you do a house search on a townie, you'll have a penalty and can't use the house search for the next night. But the night after that.
But Megure will also find out a Ally instantly without having any doubts! Because house search reveals the role, actions etc. Even if it didn't reveal that, Megure would still know that it's a townie because it wasn't a BO (who did crimes etc.) and got a penalty.

But I also think revealing Megures identity and becoming a commoner with a failed House search is too much. But instead of a 24h penalty, I think Megure just shouldn't be able to use the house search anymore once he made a false house search.
So if Megure is lucky, he could find out all BO's in a row (but that's unlikely). And if he's unlucky, he'll loose his house search ability after the 1. use. But for that he get's a reliable ally he doesn't have to doubt. And he can still arrest and use investigations.

Another idea I had is to give Megure a set number of house searches he can do. (like 1/3 * players) Whether it's a "false" or "right" house search wouldn't matter then.


@stealing:
I try to find the PMs XD
Well, the issue with 2 thiefs stealing from the same person needs to be sorted out.
And I did it like that: If someone lost an item, then it can't be stolen again. But if someone is dsguised, he can have 2 school books for example. Then just 1 get's stolen and the other one can be stolen the next night.



@bomb:
I had this idea for Rikumichi Kusuda. Since he was a BO who used bombs.

* Rikumichi Kusuda
- Night or Day or prep phase action (depends)
- He can choose a target and threat him with bombs. So the only option for the player that was bombed is to follow his orders.
In all versions the Kusuda won't know the identity/abilities of the bombed player and the bombed player won't know anything about the BO.
Version 1: He can tell him what "target" he has. So any action he/she has has to be used on that target. (healing, protection, following etc.)
Version 2: He gives a list of actions. If the player can investigate, he has to investigate this and that etc. Interrogate this player or heal that player etc. (Kusuda won't know what ability/role the bombed player has in all versions)
Version 3: The player will be ordered to "kill someone together with a BO". (But the BO player will actually kill and the Townie "just helps". So in case the bombed player will be investigated for the killing, it will be a "true". He can also be arrested for the killing (because he "helped" the BO)
Version 4: He orders him to vote for a specific player or not to vote at all. If he doesn't vote for that person he is ordered to, the bomb will explode.

In all versions, the bombed player can't tell anyone that he's bombed, thus manipulated or he'll explode. He can PM people (since the GM can't check that). But in case he tells a BO, then the BO will tell the GM and he'll explode too

I like version 3 and 4 the most. Maybe even a mix of them.
And bombing a player could be done during prep.phase. And then if the player dies, he can't bomb again.
Or Kusuda can bomb a player and it will stay for 2 phases. And then the player is "free" and Kusuda can bomb someone else. Or a mix again

I bet if we put anything related to bombs into the game, then xcommando will come back XD

[James Rye]

@Kleene

I wuve your idea of the bomb guy! Maybe needs some beta-testing but sure is an awesome idea!^g^

I like version 4 the most.^^

Also i would add to this guy that his bombs will also explode when he gets lynched. Like he place a bomb at someone, tells him not to vote or to vote for this guy otherwise *BOOM* (<- this gonna be some awesome bluffing! He could do that with one person and try to screw with two others saying they have a bomb on them^g^) but when he still gets lynched then his one bomb and the guy will explode but leave the others unknowing about the bomb victims identity.^^

To make sure that no bomb victim already get to know who´s the bomb guy, he should be able besides laying bombs to add a note to it with instructions what to do, don´t you think so?^g^

We should also add that when an investigator gets a *Akonly bombs conia* = right that the bomb will be defused and bomb guy get´s a failed action and now knows he´s ****ed. XD

[Schillok]

@bomb:
I had this idea for Rikumichi Kusuda. Since he was a BO who used bombs.

* Rikumichi Kusuda
- Night or Day or prep phase action (depends)
- He can choose a target and threat him with bombs. So the only option for the player that was bombed is to follow his orders.
In all versions the Kusuda won't know the identity/abilities of the bombed player and the bombed player won't know anything about the BO.
Version 1: He can tell him what "target" he has. So any action he/she has has to be used on that target. (healing, protection, following etc.)
Version 2: He gives a list of actions. If the player can investigate, he has to investigate this and that etc. Interrogate this player or heal that player etc. (Kusuda won't know what ability/role the bombed player has in all versions)
Version 3: The player will be ordered to "kill someone together with a BO". (But the BO player will actually kill and the Townie "just helps". So in case the bombed player will be investigated for the killing, it will be a "true". He can also be arrested for the killing (because he "helped" the BO)
Version 4: He orders him to vote for a specific player or not to vote at all. If he doesn't vote for that person he is ordered to, the bomb will explode.

In all versions, the bombed player can't tell anyone that he's bombed, thus manipulated or he'll explode. He can PM people (since the GM can't check that). But in case he tells a BO, then the BO will tell the GM and he'll explode too

I like version 3 and 4 the most. Maybe even a mix of them.
And bombing a player could be done during prep.phase. And then if the player dies, he can't bomb again.
Or Kusuda can bomb a player and it will stay for 2 phases. And then the player is "free" and Kusuda can bomb someone else. Or a mix again

I bet if we put anything related to bombs into the game, then xcommando will come back XD

Actually, in the end it turned out that

Spoiler:

the bomb he had around his neck was a fake

.
And he is pretty much the last BO member not in the game yet, so maybe we can keep him just in case someone gets a great idea? We have already taken non-Canon characters (Irish), characters which are only mentioned (like Anokata, or Calvados whose face was never shown IIRC) and/or dead characters (especially dead characters... I think 4 BO in our rooster are actually dead already...).

It is also the name... Akemi is okay, she is a bit famous since she is Sherrys sister. But Kusuda? It is more or less a random name.

So, my suggestion: Let's remove Calvados from the list of snipers (he had no sniper rifle with him anyway - just a normal rifle and a shotgun IIRC). Let's make him the bomber (for now - maybe if we invent another ability he might get that one and we will have to find a bomber again). Since almost nothing is known about him we don't even warp the character too much.
Plus, we have 2 other snipers already and Calvados is an Alcohol (so much easier to identify him as BO).


For your suggestions Kleene, the main problem is how the communication between the bomber and the victim is supposed to work like. I mean, the BO player can't send a PM directly to its victim since it would immediately prove that he is BO. So the communication has to happen via GM. That means that the number of messages sent to each other should also be as little as possible. Another problem is: The messages should be short. Or written by the GM. Because otherwise the writing style might give away the bomber. (Though it could be fun trying to fake the writing style of another player...)

So - minimum amount of communication, easy orders.

...
...
...


I tried for a while, but I didn't get a good idea how bombing should work...


Maybe we should keep that idea for a third fraction? Like a "cultist" in some Mafia versions.

Meaning one player will start as the bomber (not BO). Each night (or day) that player will "tag" one other player with a bomb. That player will the "join the bombers fraction", meaning he will not win with the town or BO anymore. His/Her role will be told to the bomber and they will work together from that moment on. Other players won't notice that change (not even other BO, best friends, lovers, DB),
So the bomber will assemble a team of players (from both town and BO) that will help him stay alive and eliminate any opposition. Once the bomber dies (or is arrested) all his bombs will detonate, removing all players he tagged from the game as well.

Problem is... when a player feels more loyalty towards their "old fraction" and tell who the bomber is.
Another problem is: The bomber might become too influential on the game, especially after recruiting important roles/players (like the BO leader) and soon become the real danger to the town.

Also, there should be some kind of defense against the bomber - or a way to get rid of his bombs.