Mafia Mafia Mafia! Pt. 3! (Game 5: Stalemate - no winner)

[Sakina]

And if you are Kid... then I will reveal the name of the second Ran in my dream so an Inspector can arrest her right at the beginning of the night. It would be unfortunate to lose Kid but we could catch Vermouth with 100% accuracy. One townie against 1 BO... it is a good trade for the town. And as I said... at the moment you are the most likely suspect.

Again - if anyone else has a better lead, let us hear it. Next night an inspector will learn the truth (If Kleene is really Kid, she would tell us her target so we confirm her target for investigation, right?).

Not true.  1412 is not allowed to tell anyone that they are KID.  If Kleene admits either openly or in PM that she were Kid she would be automatically arrested.  Then she would be no help to anyone.  That also means that if she admits to having investigative powers that I get to automatically arrest her.  :D

Also, if there is a real Ran and a fake ran (me) this doesn't necessarily mean that it's vermouth and the real ran. It could be the case that the fake ran (me) is Kid and the other ran is the real ran as a lover (thus she wants to kill you?). Or it's Kid and Vermouth, meaning there is no real ran.

just so ya'll know...

If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.

The real Ran and the one disguised as her can never exist in the game together.  There's only one situation in which there can be two. 

[Tanner-kun]

Well I thought I might also say That I got a pm from kleen to and it also had nothing about being hid but as I didn't give much just my role and action I wouldn't expect her to say any info she has gathered. After I gave my role I didn't die, and saying xpon arranged for the DB to contact today, made me probable the biggest target, and yet after I said that They would have to snipe me to kill me to kleen, I didn't die and they killed ctu witch they seem to have no reason to do, why kill him and not me? I admit this is mostly speculation but if she was vermouth, she knew they had to use a sniper to kill me so they targeted someone else. maybe because they already used one or didn't want to use it.

[Beastly]

Well I thought I might also say That I got a pm from kleen to and it also had nothing about being hid but as I didn't give much just my role and action I wouldn't expect her to say any info she has gathered. After I gave my role I didn't die, and saying xpon arranged for the DB to contact today, made me probable the biggest target, and yet after I said that They would have to snipe me to kill me to kleen, I didn't die and they killed ctu witch they seem to have no reason to do, why kill him and not me? I admit this is mostly speculation but if she was vermouth, she knew they had to use a sniper to kill me so they targeted someone else. maybe because they already used one or didn't want to use it.

Remember the quote of Vermouth: A secret makes a woman, woman.

Hahah seriously i wonder who's that insider of Schillock  ;)

[Beastly]

And if you are Kid... then I will reveal the name of the second Ran in my dream so an Inspector can arrest her right at the beginning of the night. It would be unfortunate to lose Kid but we could catch Vermouth with 100% accuracy. One townie against 1 BO... it is a good trade for the town. And as I said... at the moment you are the most likely suspect.

Again - if anyone else has a better lead, let us hear it. Next night an inspector will learn the truth (If Kleene is really Kid, she would tell us her target so we confirm her target for investigation, right?).

Not true.  1412 is not allowed to tell anyone that they are KID.  If Kleene admits either openly or in PM that she were Kid she would be automatically arrested.  Then she would be no help to anyone.  That also means that if she admits to having investigative powers that I get to automatically arrest her.  :D

Also, if there is a real Ran and a fake ran (me) this doesn't necessarily mean that it's vermouth and the real ran. It could be the case that the fake ran (me) is Kid and the other ran is the real ran as a lover (thus she wants to kill you?). Or it's Kid and Vermouth, meaning there is no real ran.

just so ya'll know...

If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.

The real Ran and the one disguised as her can never exist in the game together.  There's only one situation in which there can be two. 

But could he go like im Ran a.k.a her/he's disguised role? Cna he claimed that he/she's that?

[Tanner-kun]

well I think that

Also, if there is a real Ran and a fake ran (me) this doesn't necessarily mean that it's vermouth and the real ran. It could be the case that the fake ran (me) is Kid and the other ran is the real ran as a lover (thus she wants to kill you?). Or it's Kid and Vermouth, meaning there is no real ran.
just so ya'll know...

is a good indicator that kleen claimed to be kid and sense she hasn't been arrested yet she is probable lying about being kid.

[Beastly]

If anyone is interested in some kind of trade of infos.

YIM or AIM me

Aim-zedrich123

YIM- [email protected]

I worked in shadows  I let someone post it. 

[Kleene Onigiri]

well I think that

Also, if there is a real Ran and a fake ran (me) this doesn't necessarily mean that it's vermouth and the real ran. It could be the case that the fake ran (me) is Kid and the other ran is the real ran as a lover (thus she wants to kill you?). Or it's Kid and Vermouth, meaning there is no real ran.
just so ya'll know...

is a good indicator that kleen claimed to be kid and sense she hasn't been arrested yet she is probable lying about being kid.

Well, I wondered about that too after Sakinas post O.o

And there are 2 possibilities:
1) There is no police alive to arrest me if I happen to be KID. So I won't be arrested by default. (although just having 1 police seems strange?)
2) I just defended myself from an accusation. So since the only possibility is that there are 2 rans disguised, and no real ran, then it's considered a possibility that I'm either Vermouth or KID. So since it's not 100% proven, I'm not arrested by default (yet?).

[Sakina]

well I think that

Also, if there is a real Ran and a fake ran (me) this doesn't necessarily mean that it's vermouth and the real ran. It could be the case that the fake ran (me) is Kid and the other ran is the real ran as a lover (thus she wants to kill you?). Or it's Kid and Vermouth, meaning there is no real ran.
just so ya'll know...

is a good indicator that kleen claimed to be kid and sense she hasn't been arrested yet she is probable lying about being kid.

Arresting happens at the end of the phase.  It could also be that there are no police around to invest KID.  KID can only be arrested if there is a police officer in the game.

[pofa]

If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.

The real Ran and the one disguised as her can never exist in the game together.  There's only one situation in which there can be two. 

So, hang on--the only way there can be two Rans in one game is if they're both false (Vermouth and Kid)?

[Sakina]

If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.

The real Ran and the one disguised as her can never exist in the game together.  There's only one situation in which there can be two. 

So, hang on--the only way there can be two Rans in one game is if they're both false (Vermouth and Kid)?

That's correct.

[Beastly]

If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.

The real Ran and the one disguised as her can never exist in the game together.  There's only one situation in which there can be two. 

So, hang on--the only way there can be two Rans in one game is if they're both false (Vermouth and Kid)?

That's correct.

OMG Sakina lol...

[pofa]

So Schillok's right, then--if s/he can be trusted, and his/her dream was the truth, then if Kleene turns out to be Kid, this other Ran must be Vermouth. Or vice-versa.

However, we need to remember that we're already three Townies down. It's my understanding that the BO wins the game if the number of townies is equal to twice the number of BO.

Right now, there are 13 people in the game. Worst-case scenerio, there could be 5 BO. If we lynch no one today, but have a policeman arrest Kleene tonight, and she turns out to be Kid, that's -1 Townie. If we trust Schillok, we can then lynch the other Ran (Vermouth) the next day. (-1 BO). If Schillok is wrong about the dream, or lying, that's potentially -2 Townies, plus whoever the BO kills the following night (-3 Townies). If there are 5 BO, BO wins.

If we lynch a Townie today (-1 Townie) and arrest Kleene tonight, and Kleene is Kid (-2 Townie) and the BO kills someone tonight (-3 Townie), and there are 5 BO, BO wins.

My point is, to police officers: If the person we lynch today turns out to be a Townie, be really sure before you arrest Kleene.

[Schillok]

If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.

The real Ran and the one disguised as her can never exist in the game together.  There's only one situation in which there can be two. 

So, hang on--the only way there can be two Rans in one game is if they're both false (Vermouth and Kid)?

That's correct.

Eww... if I had know that I would have used a completely different strategy.

Can't we just arrest both Rans? Catching Kaito Kid seems fine to me.  ;D Catching Vermouth with him is even better.  ::)

@Sakina: So in the current situation Kleene is arrested if she is Kid automatically at the end of turn? And then the true Vermouth could be arrested by an officer at the beginning of the night? (If there is an officer left)
And if she is not arrested at the end of the turn we would know she is Vermouth for sure and I could keep the identity of Kid a secret? I mean... I have no waterproof evidence against him, just a dream.  :P


But as I said: If someone has a better target for todays lynching unauthorized trial of a BO member, I would love to hear that. Since the real Vermouth is lacking the investigation powers all we would have to do is to check if Kleene investigates Schillok tonight. If she doesn't... it's Vermouth.
Just... this is all I know. I have no other suspects so far,,,

[Beastly]

If someone is arrested it wont show what his/her role.

[pofa]

If someone is arrested it wont show what his/her role.

OK, sorry. I should have remembered that from last time.

In that case, if we want to take immediate action, lynching might be a better idea than arrest, because at least we won't remove two Townies from the game...

Or we could follow Schillok's plan and have some people continue to investigate Kleene tonight. However, if a policeman or meitantei finds out that Kleene has the Investigate ability, won't that person have to arrest her for being Kid?