Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Kleene Onigiri]

@conia: I wrote my long post before you made the round 7 thread. So I asked things that you already cleared in your post, but that's because I saw your post after I finished writing mine XD

@Beastly:
It's one sided atm. The town is too powerful. That's why the APTX was "invented" (Schillok is Sherry!)
We don't know if the APTX is too powerful or not, that's why we need to test if first in this round. Chances can be still made afterward.

APTX is too powerful we were supposed to balanced not make one side better.

Anyway, use random.org then have 2 days that APTX will only shrunk the victim. That means he'll be a normal townie and can unite a team.

the entire point of APTX is to make the town *not* unite.

sure you can complain about it making the BO powerful, but as it stands now, the past few games have had little to no lynched townies past day 1. Heck, last game not a single townie was lynched over 6 lynchings, which is just ludicrous.

That's why I still see a problem in the roles that can travel out of japan. Those can avoid being killed by the APTX with the traveling.

So if I would be Hakuba again:
I would stay in japan or I would travel back, interrogate and fly back to japan.
Then I would make public that I'm Hakuba. BO will try to kill me with the APTX (most likely).
People won't trust me and interrogate/follow me.
People that trust me will give me information. People that don't trust me will give me information anyway, but in a way so that they won't reveal their own role (like "I can investigate and found out this and that, but I won't tell you more about my role")

So these roles could unite the town again.... ( I said COULD, this can still fail if someone  tries that)

But maybe I should stop bothering. My suggestions won't be considered anyway.

[Schillok]

1) I won't be making random killing. Even if Anakota doesn't give the killing order, 1 vote from the other members is enough for an attack to happen.

Uhh... this rule was only supposed to handle what would happen if NONE of the BO gave a "killing order" (or suggestion) during a night. Since in most Mafia-games the mafia is required to kill someone during the night this rule would have made sure that there is a killing (attempt) every night.

@Beastly:
It's one sided atm. The town is too powerful. That's why the APTX was "invented" (Schillok is Sherry!)
We don't know if the APTX is too powerful or not, that's why we need to test if first in this round. Chances can be still made afterward.

Yeah. According to my observations the victories of the town were - to a big part - due to role-claiming (telling the own role). That way the other townies could check if that player was talking the truth leading to quick formations of town-alliances which worked together to find the rest of BO within a few nights (usually they had found one BO each night which they lynched the following day). This should make that tactic a bit harder.
It would also reward "infiltrating" such alliances or deducting players identities for the BO. Beastly, do you remember game 5? You were BO and successfully infiltrated the little alliance containing of you, me and Conia. You knew our roles... but could do nothing against us. And since you could not tell which of the three Detectives you were (or claimed to be) you got suspicious quickly.
With APTX you could have wiped us out before we got in contact with Callids group...

Last game it was the other way around (if I caught it correctly). You were Sherry and used your strong role to be the center of investigations and quickly form an alliance that killed all the BO starting with day 2. They didn't have much of a chance which shows the game was imbalanced at that point.

That's why I still see a problem in the roles that can travel out of japan. Those can avoid being killed by the APTX with the traveling.

So if I would be Hakuba again:
I would stay in japan or I would travel back, interrogate and fly back to japan.
Then I would make public that I'm Hakuba. BO will try to kill me with the APTX (most likely).
People won't trust me and interrogate/follow me.
People that trust me will give me information. People that don't trust me will give me information anyway, but in a way so that they won't reveal their own role (like "I can investigate and found out this and that, but I won't tell you more about my role")

So these roles could unite the town again.... ( I said COULD, this can still fail if someone  tries that)

But maybe I should stop bothering. My suggestions won't be considered anyway.

If that happens we could change it...
And still, this method sounds much slower than what is happening the last games. APTX is supposed to slow down the formation of alliances, not prevent them completely.

About the tactic you supposed: That Hakuba player is deactivating himself willingly it seems. While in England he has no way of gathering information himself. He has to rely on the input of other players - and could not check if the player contacting him is BO or not. At some point that Hakuba has to coordinate the strategy for the people trusting him, and if a BO is among them he puts everyone in danger.
On the other hand... why should the other players even try to trust Hakuba? If there is no Okina in the game any BO member (preferably Anakota or Vermouth who can't be interrogated, though Gin could also help...) could claim to be Hakuba and gain a lot of information about other players that way...


Yes, it could unite the town again. But.... is this really any different from Kid revealing himself to be put in prison to coordinate everything from there? Or a police officer doing a false arrest giving away his role to everyone to trust him in the process? (Guess APTX would kill him quickly, though)
Giving up all powers to gain trust sounds like a fair trade. If a real game shows different and the APTX4869 needs to be changed we could do so anytime.

[Kleene Onigiri]

1) I won't be making random killing. Even if Anakota doesn't give the killing order, 1 vote from the other members is enough for an attack to happen.

Uhh... this rule was only supposed to handle what would happen if NONE of the BO gave a "killing order" (or suggestion) during a night. Since in most Mafia-games the mafia is required to kill someone during the night this rule would have made sure that there is a killing (attempt) every night.

@Beastly:
It's one sided atm. The town is too powerful. That's why the APTX was "invented" (Schillok is Sherry!)
We don't know if the APTX is too powerful or not, that's why we need to test if first in this round. Chances can be still made afterward.

Yeah. According to my observations the victories of the town were - to a big part - due to role-claiming (telling the own role). That way the other townies could check if that player was talking the truth leading to quick formations of town-alliances which worked together to find the rest of BO within a few nights (usually they had found one BO each night which they lynched the following day). This should make that tactic a bit harder.
It would also reward "infiltrating" such alliances or deducting players identities for the BO. Beastly, do you remember game 5? You were BO and successfully infiltrated the little alliance containing of you, me and Conia. You knew our roles... but could do nothing against us. And since you could not tell which of the three Detectives you were (or claimed to be) you got suspicious quickly.
With APTX you could have wiped us out before we got in contact with Callids group...

Last game it was the other way around (if I caught it correctly). You were Sherry and used your strong role to be the center of investigations and quickly form an alliance that killed all the BO starting with day 2. They didn't have much of a chance which shows the game was imbalanced at that point.

That's why I still see a problem in the roles that can travel out of japan. Those can avoid being killed by the APTX with the traveling.

So if I would be Hakuba again:
I would stay in japan or I would travel back, interrogate and fly back to japan.
Then I would make public that I'm Hakuba. BO will try to kill me with the APTX (most likely).
People won't trust me and interrogate/follow me.
People that trust me will give me information. People that don't trust me will give me information anyway, but in a way so that they won't reveal their own role (like "I can investigate and found out this and that, but I won't tell you more about my role")

So these roles could unite the town again.... ( I said COULD, this can still fail if someone  tries that)

But maybe I should stop bothering. My suggestions won't be considered anyway.

If that happens we could change it...
And still, this method sounds much slower than what is happening the last games. APTX is supposed to slow down the formation of alliances, not prevent them completely.

About the tactic you supposed: That Hakuba player is deactivating himself willingly it seems. While in England he has no way of gathering information himself. He has to rely on the input of other players - and could not check if the player contacting him is BO or not. At some point that Hakuba has to coordinate the strategy for the people trusting him, and if a BO is among them he puts everyone in danger.
On the other hand... why should the other players even try to trust Hakuba? If there is no Okina in the game any BO member (preferably Anakota or Vermouth who can't be interrogated, though Gin could also help...) could claim to be Hakuba and gain a lot of information about other players that way...


Yes, it could unite the town again. But.... is this really any different from Kid revealing himself to be put in prison to coordinate everything from there? Or a police officer doing a false arrest giving away his role to everyone to trust him in the process? (Guess APTX would kill him quickly, though)
Giving up all powers to gain trust sounds like a fair trade. If a real game shows different and the APTX4869 needs to be changed we could do so anytime.

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

[nomemory]

1) I won't be making random killing. Even if Anakota doesn't give the killing order, 1 vote from the other members is enough for an attack to happen.

Uhh... this rule was only supposed to handle what would happen if NONE of the BO gave a "killing order" (or suggestion) during a night. Since in most Mafia-games the mafia is required to kill someone during the night this rule would have made sure that there is a killing (attempt) every night.

@Beastly:
It's one sided atm. The town is too powerful. That's why the APTX was "invented" (Schillok is Sherry!)
We don't know if the APTX is too powerful or not, that's why we need to test if first in this round. Chances can be still made afterward.

Yeah. According to my observations the victories of the town were - to a big part - due to role-claiming (telling the own role). That way the other townies could check if that player was talking the truth leading to quick formations of town-alliances which worked together to find the rest of BO within a few nights (usually they had found one BO each night which they lynched the following day). This should make that tactic a bit harder.
It would also reward "infiltrating" such alliances or deducting players identities for the BO. Beastly, do you remember game 5? You were BO and successfully infiltrated the little alliance containing of you, me and Conia. You knew our roles... but could do nothing against us. And since you could not tell which of the three Detectives you were (or claimed to be) you got suspicious quickly.
With APTX you could have wiped us out before we got in contact with Callids group...

Last game it was the other way around (if I caught it correctly). You were Sherry and used your strong role to be the center of investigations and quickly form an alliance that killed all the BO starting with day 2. They didn't have much of a chance which shows the game was imbalanced at that point.

That's why I still see a problem in the roles that can travel out of japan. Those can avoid being killed by the APTX with the traveling.

So if I would be Hakuba again:
I would stay in japan or I would travel back, interrogate and fly back to japan.
Then I would make public that I'm Hakuba. BO will try to kill me with the APTX (most likely).
People won't trust me and interrogate/follow me.
People that trust me will give me information. People that don't trust me will give me information anyway, but in a way so that they won't reveal their own role (like "I can investigate and found out this and that, but I won't tell you more about my role")

So these roles could unite the town again.... ( I said COULD, this can still fail if someone  tries that)

But maybe I should stop bothering. My suggestions won't be considered anyway.

If that happens we could change it...
And still, this method sounds much slower than what is happening the last games. APTX is supposed to slow down the formation of alliances, not prevent them completely.

About the tactic you supposed: That Hakuba player is deactivating himself willingly it seems. While in England he has no way of gathering information himself. He has to rely on the input of other players - and could not check if the player contacting him is BO or not. At some point that Hakuba has to coordinate the strategy for the people trusting him, and if a BO is among them he puts everyone in danger.
On the other hand... why should the other players even try to trust Hakuba? If there is no Okina in the game any BO member (preferably Anakota or Vermouth who can't be interrogated, though Gin could also help...) could claim to be Hakuba and gain a lot of information about other players that way...


Yes, it could unite the town again. But.... is this really any different from Kid revealing himself to be put in prison to coordinate everything from there? Or a police officer doing a false arrest giving away his role to everyone to trust him in the process? (Guess APTX would kill him quickly, though)
Giving up all powers to gain trust sounds like a fair trade. If a real game shows different and the APTX4869 needs to be changed we could do so anytime.

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

But this will only work if there is an alive policeman in game right?

[Beastly]

1) I won't be making random killing. Even if Anakota doesn't give the killing order, 1 vote from the other members is enough for an attack to happen.

Uhh... this rule was only supposed to handle what would happen if NONE of the BO gave a "killing order" (or suggestion) during a night. Since in most Mafia-games the mafia is required to kill someone during the night this rule would have made sure that there is a killing (attempt) every night.

@Beastly:
It's one sided atm. The town is too powerful. That's why the APTX was "invented" (Schillok is Sherry!)
We don't know if the APTX is too powerful or not, that's why we need to test if first in this round. Chances can be still made afterward.

Yeah. According to my observations the victories of the town were - to a big part - due to role-claiming (telling the own role). That way the other townies could check if that player was talking the truth leading to quick formations of town-alliances which worked together to find the rest of BO within a few nights (usually they had found one BO each night which they lynched the following day). This should make that tactic a bit harder.
It would also reward "infiltrating" such alliances or deducting players identities for the BO. Beastly, do you remember game 5? You were BO and successfully infiltrated the little alliance containing of you, me and Conia. You knew our roles... but could do nothing against us. And since you could not tell which of the three Detectives you were (or claimed to be) you got suspicious quickly.
With APTX you could have wiped us out before we got in contact with Callids group...

Last game it was the other way around (if I caught it correctly). You were Sherry and used your strong role to be the center of investigations and quickly form an alliance that killed all the BO starting with day 2. They didn't have much of a chance which shows the game was imbalanced at that point.

That's why I still see a problem in the roles that can travel out of japan. Those can avoid being killed by the APTX with the traveling.

So if I would be Hakuba again:
I would stay in japan or I would travel back, interrogate and fly back to japan.
Then I would make public that I'm Hakuba. BO will try to kill me with the APTX (most likely).
People won't trust me and interrogate/follow me.
People that trust me will give me information. People that don't trust me will give me information anyway, but in a way so that they won't reveal their own role (like "I can investigate and found out this and that, but I won't tell you more about my role")

So these roles could unite the town again.... ( I said COULD, this can still fail if someone  tries that)

But maybe I should stop bothering. My suggestions won't be considered anyway.

If that happens we could change it...
And still, this method sounds much slower than what is happening the last games. APTX is supposed to slow down the formation of alliances, not prevent them completely.

About the tactic you supposed: That Hakuba player is deactivating himself willingly it seems. While in England he has no way of gathering information himself. He has to rely on the input of other players - and could not check if the player contacting him is BO or not. At some point that Hakuba has to coordinate the strategy for the people trusting him, and if a BO is among them he puts everyone in danger.
On the other hand... why should the other players even try to trust Hakuba? If there is no Okina in the game any BO member (preferably Anakota or Vermouth who can't be interrogated, though Gin could also help...) could claim to be Hakuba and gain a lot of information about other players that way...


Yes, it could unite the town again. But.... is this really any different from Kid revealing himself to be put in prison to coordinate everything from there? Or a police officer doing a false arrest giving away his role to everyone to trust him in the process? (Guess APTX would kill him quickly, though)
Giving up all powers to gain trust sounds like a fair trade. If a real game shows different and the APTX4869 needs to be changed we could do so anytime.

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

But this will only work if there is an alive policeman in game right?

KID Have a good role now, cool.

[Kleene Onigiri]

1) I won't be making random killing. Even if Anakota doesn't give the killing order, 1 vote from the other members is enough for an attack to happen.

Uhh... this rule was only supposed to handle what would happen if NONE of the BO gave a "killing order" (or suggestion) during a night. Since in most Mafia-games the mafia is required to kill someone during the night this rule would have made sure that there is a killing (attempt) every night.

@Beastly:
It's one sided atm. The town is too powerful. That's why the APTX was "invented" (Schillok is Sherry!)
We don't know if the APTX is too powerful or not, that's why we need to test if first in this round. Chances can be still made afterward.

Yeah. According to my observations the victories of the town were - to a big part - due to role-claiming (telling the own role). That way the other townies could check if that player was talking the truth leading to quick formations of town-alliances which worked together to find the rest of BO within a few nights (usually they had found one BO each night which they lynched the following day). This should make that tactic a bit harder.
It would also reward "infiltrating" such alliances or deducting players identities for the BO. Beastly, do you remember game 5? You were BO and successfully infiltrated the little alliance containing of you, me and Conia. You knew our roles... but could do nothing against us. And since you could not tell which of the three Detectives you were (or claimed to be) you got suspicious quickly.
With APTX you could have wiped us out before we got in contact with Callids group...

Last game it was the other way around (if I caught it correctly). You were Sherry and used your strong role to be the center of investigations and quickly form an alliance that killed all the BO starting with day 2. They didn't have much of a chance which shows the game was imbalanced at that point.

That's why I still see a problem in the roles that can travel out of japan. Those can avoid being killed by the APTX with the traveling.

So if I would be Hakuba again:
I would stay in japan or I would travel back, interrogate and fly back to japan.
Then I would make public that I'm Hakuba. BO will try to kill me with the APTX (most likely).
People won't trust me and interrogate/follow me.
People that trust me will give me information. People that don't trust me will give me information anyway, but in a way so that they won't reveal their own role (like "I can investigate and found out this and that, but I won't tell you more about my role")

So these roles could unite the town again.... ( I said COULD, this can still fail if someone  tries that)

But maybe I should stop bothering. My suggestions won't be considered anyway.

If that happens we could change it...
And still, this method sounds much slower than what is happening the last games. APTX is supposed to slow down the formation of alliances, not prevent them completely.

About the tactic you supposed: That Hakuba player is deactivating himself willingly it seems. While in England he has no way of gathering information himself. He has to rely on the input of other players - and could not check if the player contacting him is BO or not. At some point that Hakuba has to coordinate the strategy for the people trusting him, and if a BO is among them he puts everyone in danger.
On the other hand... why should the other players even try to trust Hakuba? If there is no Okina in the game any BO member (preferably Anakota or Vermouth who can't be interrogated, though Gin could also help...) could claim to be Hakuba and gain a lot of information about other players that way...


Yes, it could unite the town again. But.... is this really any different from Kid revealing himself to be put in prison to coordinate everything from there? Or a police officer doing a false arrest giving away his role to everyone to trust him in the process? (Guess APTX would kill him quickly, though)
Giving up all powers to gain trust sounds like a fair trade. If a real game shows different and the APTX4869 needs to be changed we could do so anytime.

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

But this will only work if there is an alive policeman in game right?

KID Have a good role now, cool.

Yumi is usually in the game (prep phase role). And if not, it's likely that there is at least 1 police member in the game. (or he can arrest himself because he disguised as a police)

[Schillok]

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

Well, that tactic would have been possible all the previous games, too. But noone ever used it, yet.
Not sure if just claiming to be Kid would be enough. I mean... everyone could be claiming to be Kid then. I think it really requires an investigation for the disguise of the police officer.

And if it turns out to be a problem, a simple rule change could prevent it: "Kid can not win the game if he gets arrested".
So a dead Kid wins with the town (What was it with most artists getting famous only after their death?  ). A captured one just looses if if the town wins.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

Well, that tactic would have been possible all the previous games, too. But noone ever used it, yet.
Not sure if just claiming to be Kid would be enough. I mean... everyone could be claiming to be Kid then. I think it really requires an investigation for the disguise of the police officer.

And if it turns out to be a problem, a simple rule change could prevent it: "Kid can not win the game if he gets arrested".
So a dead Kid wins with the town (What was it with most artists getting famous only after their death?  ). A captured one just looses if if the town wins.

Well, it's not "claiming" to be KID. It's being arrested on purpose and helping the town to win. And that "you will not win then" won't help imo (I would still do that even if I wouldn't "officially" win )

Well, that tactic wasn't needed till now. Because other roles were able to gather the town together.

[Akonyl]

Nice. Then if I'm Kid, I'll reveal my role in public, will be arrested by default (since arresting > killing/APTX I won't die from the BO)
Then I can talk freely, gather information and tell people who to lynch. I don't even have to bother to prove my role to the others. And "sacrificing" 1 townsmember to unite the whole town is worth it. People will tell me their role. Those that won't tell me will be suspicious and therefore investigated etc. This will be the same case like in the last round then (Sherry gathers all informations/roles) Nice

Well, that tactic would have been possible all the previous games, too. But noone ever used it, yet.
Not sure if just claiming to be Kid would be enough. I mean... everyone could be claiming to be Kid then. I think it really requires an investigation for the disguise of the police officer.

And if it turns out to be a problem, a simple rule change could prevent it: "Kid can not win the game if he gets arrested".
So a dead Kid wins with the town (What was it with most artists getting famous only after their death?  ). A captured one just looses if if the town wins.

Well, it's not "claiming" to be KID. It's being arrested on purpose and helping the town to win. And that "you will not win then" won't help imo (I would still do that even if I wouldn't "officially" win )

Well, that tactic wasn't needed till now. Because other roles were able to gather the town together.

it was still a useful point in previous games though, as when I had to choose holmes or commi-ninja to arrest, I knew I had a good outcome either way (as I'd either prove myself by arresting a BO, or I'd be revealed as Takagi, proving myself as a trustworthy person).

but anyway, if the point of aptx is to prevent unity, I think there should be a clause that states that arrested people can still be poisoned, but not regularly murdered/lynched (as the BO can infiltrate the headquarters and slip some poison into his food more easily than shooting him in there), so as to not make "get kid arrested" a valid tactic for winning the game.

[Schillok]

Well, at least during  the last game the "kid leading the town from prison" or "Hakuba leading the town from england" did not happen so I guess there is no immediate need to solve the issue if APTX can be applied to "arrested" persons or not.

So far the "balancing between town and BO" has most votes so let's talk about that for a bit.

In the previous game the BO managed to win (quite quickly I might add), so I guess the latest balancing with APTX and the general strengthening and increased diversity of the BO roles helped them. Up to the point where they got almost too strong, considering how much and early they were able to dominate the lynch voting.
I think the major problem was the sheer number of BO members in that game. 4 out of 12 players was just too much. Or at least the highest maximum one should allow to keep the games fair. I don't know how the game would have went with only 3 members. It might have been hard for the BO in that case but at least I doubt the game would have been decided on day 3 like it was the last game...

[Kleene Onigiri]

Well, at least during  the last game the "kid leading the town from prison" or "Hakuba leading the town from england" did not happen so I guess there is no immediate need to solve the issue if APTX can be applied to "arrested" persons or not.

So far the "balancing between town and BO" has most votes so let's talk about that for a bit.

In the previous game the BO managed to win (quite quickly I might add), so I guess the latest balancing with APTX and the general strengthening and increased diversity of the BO roles helped them. Up to the point where they got almost too strong, considering how much and early they were able to dominate the lynch voting.
I think the major problem was the sheer number of BO members in that game. 4 out of 12 players was just too much. Or at least the highest maximum one should allow to keep the games fair. I don't know how the game would have went with only 3 members. It might have been hard for the BO in that case but at least I doubt the game would have been decided on day 3 like it was the last game...

I don't think 4 BOs with 12 people is too much. But it was kinda unbalanced because Tequila was in the BO, who can manipulate the lynchings. If tequila wasn't in the game, then it would have been more balanced imo.

The APTX worked good. But we could see that the BO did hesitate to use it, because they feared that the town could be lying. And also the Town hesitated to reveal information they gathered because they feared the APTX.
Since it was the 1. round with APTX I think people need to figure out a strategy first and are in "experimentation mode". So I wouldn't make some major changes yet. (like weakening BO roles or strengthening town roles a lot)

[Akonyl]

Well, at least during  the last game the "kid leading the town from prison" or "Hakuba leading the town from england" did not happen so I guess there is no immediate need to solve the issue if APTX can be applied to "arrested" persons or not.

So far the "balancing between town and BO" has most votes so let's talk about that for a bit.

In the previous game the BO managed to win (quite quickly I might add), so I guess the latest balancing with APTX and the general strengthening and increased diversity of the BO roles helped them. Up to the point where they got almost too strong, considering how much and early they were able to dominate the lynch voting.
I think the major problem was the sheer number of BO members in that game. 4 out of 12 players was just too much. Or at least the highest maximum one should allow to keep the games fair. I don't know how the game would have went with only 3 members. It might have been hard for the BO in that case but at least I doubt the game would have been decided on day 3 like it was the last game...

I don't think 4 BOs with 12 people is too much. But it was kinda unbalanced because Tequila was in the BO, who can manipulate the lynchings. If tequila wasn't in the game, then it would have been more balanced imo.

The APTX worked good. But we could see that the BO did hesitate to use it, because they feared that the town could be lying. And also the Town hesitated to reveal information they gathered because they feared the APTX.
Since it was the 1. round with APTX I think people need to figure out a strategy first and are in "experimentation mode". So I wouldn't make some major changes yet. (like weakening BO roles or strengthening town roles a lot)

if tequila hadn't been in the game, holmes would have been lynched day 1 and things would have been vastly different.

edit: Also, to suggest balancing:
If any part of this game was unbalanced, I would say it was tequila more than any other factor. If you wanted to change tequila's role, you could perhaps change it so that rather than lynch vote nulling, tequila's ability is that as long as he's alive, the town will not receive a summary of who voted to lynch who (and perhaps the BO will be given this information via PM). This way, the actual votes are unaffected, but it allows the BO to to band together and vote to lynch people, while not letting the town know who voted for who. In a way, this may actually be more powerful than the previous, as the BO would have no reason to not band together, but *shrug*. Perhaps this could be made into an ability that takes affect the day after tequila successfully murders someone.

That's another thing which I think would be an interesting addition to the BO, abilities which can only be used on the same night as a killing. I think there should be more of a reason to assign specific members to do killings (other than the snipers), such as "if Gin is assigned to kill, he can slander X more people" or something. Of course, this would only make the BO stronger, but I think it would be an interesting mechanic.

[xpon]

please... give Ai a drug so atleast 1 game she can stop her fear.... the restriction is too much.

[pofa]

xpon has been asking me about changing Sherry's abilities, so I'll put his questions here. He says that last game, he was only able to follow one person due to the rule that "if she gets a scent she can't follow the next day" and asks if we can make it so that once per game, Haibara can somehow throw off that fear and follow someone the next day anyway.

My thoughts on this are:

The last game was only 3 days long and the third day, the BO won. So even if that rule wasn't in effect, xpon, you'd only have gotten to follow someone one more time anyway.

I'm not totally averse to giving Sherry a little bit of her power back, though, since it's true that she's a sitting duck for a long time after discovering a BO member. The once a game thing might be fair...or we can do something like with Kogoro's role, where if a certain character dies (Conan, Agasa), she'll be able to shake off her fears and won't have to wait a day between followings anymore even if she gets a scent. What does everyone else think?

Also, was arresting a day/night action last game? Should we keep it that way?

[Akonyl]

xpon has been asking me about changing Sherry's abilities, so I'll put his questions here. He says that last game, he was only able to follow one person due to the rule that "if she gets a scent she can't follow the next day" and asks if we can make it so that once per game, Haibara can somehow throw off that fear and follow someone the next day anyway.

My thoughts on this are:

The last game was only 3 days long and the third day, the BO won. So even if that rule wasn't in effect, xpon, you'd only have gotten to follow someone one more time anyway.

I'm not totally averse to giving Sherry a little bit of her power back, though, since it's true that she's a sitting duck for a long time after discovering a BO member. The once a game thing might be fair...or we can do something like with Kogoro's role, where if a certain character dies (Conan, Agasa), she'll be able to shake off her fears and won't have to wait a day between followings anymore even if she gets a scent. What does everyone else think?

Also, was arresting a day/night action last game? Should we keep it that way?

once a game may be fine, but I think that her role as an unslanderable detective is a bit powerful. There's Akai and Okiya, sure, but the chance of randomly following one of them is smaller than getting slandered by a large margin (as people of interest may be slandered, but townies with scents are just random).

Arresting: last game, conia wanted arresting to be a day+night action, but I pointed out that in the roles list, it only said night.

Changing it to day/night would be fine though, as long as the "abetting a murder" ability is removed (which he also suggested). Although I suggest that if you make the change, just make "Arresting" another keyword with Investigator/Interrogator and give it to the police, so that when the rules are changed for it it only needs to be changed in one place.