ESPIONAGE: A brand new simple forum game! (Central Rules & Information Topic)

[Jd-]

NEW RULE PROPOSAL
Civilian lists are now partially revealed upon death

Once killed by the Spy, a civilian's list will be announced by the GM apart from one name, the last on the list, which remains illegible. This means while chances are high at least the Spy or Detective is on the revealed list, it is possible they are the illegible 7th name and the rest are civilians. These revealed lists are valuable to all players, so strategize accordingly. Note that this does not apply to arrests. Lists of arrested players will remain private.

As the reveal, the GM may post something akin to:

"A piece of paper was found among their belongings, it read:

1) KleeneOnigiri
2) shinichi'sapprentice
3) kkslider5552000
4) Commi-Ninja
5) PhoenixTears
6) Jd-
7) [illegible]

The last name on the list is illegible and can't be read."

[shinichi'sapprentice]

but all the innocent civilians already aim for the arrest of the spy. i don't think an assistant for the detective is necessary. just like what Stopwatch did on the first round,.. heshe risked being suspicious so all attention gets to her and not to the detective. everyone can/will be an assistant to the detective to reach the one goal.

adding an assistant for the spy would really be helpful because it will at least higher their chance of winning...

[Jd-]

@Kleeners: I like the idea, and I think it's definitely something to keep on tabs. I suggest we try implementing the Informant role mentioned riiight before you posted to establish the status quo of "not everyone is who they seem" and then go from there if there's room to expand/alter/etc. That said, there is the concern that the Detective's assistants is already everyone else, so we can keep it in mind.

One thing I was wanting to decide is how many assistants/informants, based on the earlier post of mine, should be added depending on the size of the game. If there are 20 players, should there be one spy and one informant? Or two informants? 25? 15? All discussions to be had.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Well, the purpose for 2 assistants was, so that it's unclear for the assistant to know whether they assist the spy or detective.
Because that way, it's also still a mystery for the assistant. So they can still have fun figuring out who their special role is and who the other special role is.
It also helps the assistant to "keep cool". Since they don't know the identity of the special role, they won't get too nervous or biased during the game. From Mafia games I know that people usually prefer being town. So becoming an assistant for the spy could make some people loose interests :V
That's why it's also volunteer to be an assistant in my version, so you're not forced to defend someone. Since some people prefer being more passive/silent or aren't sure how to defend someone.

Another point is, that everyone else also knows that there are two assistants possible. That way the chance that the assistant is outing the spy accidentally is smaller. (too much defending could make it suspicious).
Because someone could defend someone else because it's their special role assigned to or the detective tries to sway from their Investigated person away or the spy tries to sway the vote to someone he thinks is the detective. Or a civilian has a hunch.

And another point is, that both the spy and the detective get a list :V
Personally I don't like the partially revealing of the list when someone dies. But that's just my opinion

[Conan-chandesune]

Personally I don't like the partially revealing of the list when someone dies. But that's just my opinion

I agree. Even if you do, you should reveal more names on the first day (5 or 6) and then lessen it by 2 every day as 2 players will die every day. Also, i think that we should play another round before deciding whether having assistants or informants will improve the game experience or not!!! I mean it would be better if we do not know how many assistants/informants can be there. I think 3 should be the upper limit of both.

[aly_angelflight]

I believe if we do have partial revealing of lists, more than just the last person on the list needs to get cut off. With only one person getting knocked off the list, it's still reasonable for the spy or detective to assume that since they aren't on that list, the other special role must be on it, since I'd think the likelihood of both the list containing their name and it being on the last position of the list would be pretty small.

[dumytru]

We can do this:
Along with completely hiding names, we can also hide certain letters of the name.

Here's what I mean:
Instead of "dumytru" written on the list, it'd be "[..]u[..]t[..]u".

So we have to figure out whose name is that.
I say this because there could be more than one name that could fit that certain pattern, though my example isn't that good.

[Jd-]

We can do this:
Along with completely hiding names, we can also hide certain letters of the name.

Here's what I mean:
Instead of "dumytru" written on the list, it'd be "[..]u[..]t[..]u".

So we have to figure out whose name is that.
I say this because there could be more than one name that could fit that certain pattern, though my example isn't that good.

Not a bad idea at all, definitely. I just worry that it's be impossible to really hide them or really fool anyone for too long because of the finite amount of options. That and it'd create a little more work for the GM. Let me think it over for a bit, hmmmmm...

I believe if we do have partial revealing of lists, more than just the last person on the list needs to get cut off. With only one person getting knocked off the list, it's still reasonable for the spy or detective to assume that since they aren't on that list, the other special role must be on it, since I'd think the likelihood of both the list containing their name and it being on the last position of the list would be pretty small.

It's true, yeah. My concern is that if we have more than 2-3 removed, the list is not worth very much, but with 2-3 removed, it seems reasonable enough. Going with Conan-chandesune's idea is also not bad, because we can ensure not too much information is revealed over time.

I've read all the posts and everyone has some good ideas/thoughts. Is there anything else anyone'd like to mention/bring to the table? My number-one concern at this point is introducing a slight shift in dynamic for the civilian population. I want to ensure they have a little more to go on--not too much more, but a little more.

[dumytru]

Not a bad idea at all, definitely. I just worry that it's be impossible to really hide them or really fool anyone for too long because of the finite amount of options. That and it'd create a little more work for the GM. Let me think it over for a bit, hmmmmm...

About the work for GM, I thought we can use a Noise Texture and Overlay it over an image of the list.
Though, the GM may not have Photoshop (or some software) to do that.

Here's an example using fractal noise:

Spoiler:

[Kleene Onigiri]

I have something, more like a reminder
This game was also for people who don't have so much time to play to be able to join. So decoding some lists shouldn't take too much time D:

[xpon]

some additional idea for Idea 3:

Each player Got 1 name of a Civilian. so the list will be:

1. Player 3
2. Player 6
3. Player 1
4. Player 2
5. Player 9
6. Player 7

Civilian: Player 4

The purpose of having 1 names of a 100% sure civilian is so every player have a base information to defend someone they want !
because you still cant sure if people say the truth right?

the Spy Assistance will try to defend the Spy by saying he/she is civilian.

so when someone said: "I am sure Kleene is civilian", he/she wont revealed that he/she is the detective.

because by reading the past round, i see that people cant defend others based on fact, and just playing randomly.


for the Spy, knowing that someone is most likely a civilian will make them find other target to kill, because killing a random target and hoping to get the detective is much better than killing an almost sure civilian right?

well, this is just an idea

[Jecka]

xpon!

I like the idea of having the list found near the body. That's all I got for now

[Jd-]

OK, so! We've had sufficient cooldown between phases now I believe.

First, @xpon: Really interesting idea! I'm going to save that one and come back to it after testing the current build.

Second, the search: It is now time to find a GM for the second round. Any volunteers off-hand?

[Stopwatch]

If no one else says they're interested, I can do it ^^. (So much less to mess up with this setup :x)

[Iwamoto Yuri]

I don't mind doing it either :x