Mafia Round 20: The Stalker Round! (BO Wins!)

[Detective Tommy]

Yeah except I learn from my mistakes.

I guess I'll use it on someone else

[PT]

Maybe I should add that to my sig? "Don't trust DT if he says he needs someone to take over his actions for a few phases!"

[Detective Tommy]

Maybe I should add that to my sig? "Don't trust DT if he says he needs someone to take over his actions for a few phase!"

I'll add this "PT is slandering me! Don't trust anything in her signature!" :3

[Yurikochan]

Maybe I should add that to my sig? "Don't trust DT if he says he needs someone to take over his actions for a few phase!"

I'll add this "PT is slandering me! Don't trust anything in her signature!" :3

Or just tell people it. So they'll know your BO.

And I did call you out as BO. But we didn't want a "horde" to vote together again. XD

[Akonyl]

considering how little I could actually do to prove anyone without exposing myself, I'll not say a whole lot about this round

But, I will say two things:

Who's winning, who's winning... looks like we have a tie between Sherlock and Akonyl. Someone must leave, there's no other way to fix this... I was hoping this wasn't brought up, but there's some people whose vote is worth DOUBLE, and will hopefully define this.

generally, if you're hoping that the game wouldn't come to actually use your reward, that's an indication that you subconsciously knew you shouldn't have rewarded the reward in the first place. So, note to future GMs

I almost use bad words if only conia didnt remind me that you accuse me as your character.

do not do this, ever, please. Just because you are whichever character you are doesn't mean you should roleplay your character's hatreds towards others as that just makes things super awkward for the people around you (similar to when you blew up at DT that one round and played it off as "chianti hates vermouth so I was RPing" or something) and thus unfun.

[Conia]

Who's winning, who's winning... looks like we have a tie between Sherlock and Akonyl. Someone must leave, there's no other way to fix this... I was hoping this wasn't brought up, but there's some people whose vote is worth DOUBLE, and will hopefully define this.

generally, if you're hoping that the game wouldn't come to actually use your reward, that's an indication that you subconsciously knew you shouldn't have rewarded the reward in the first place. So, note to future GMs

Oi oi, leave my subconcious out of this But that's correct. Not that future GMs will have to worry about Task rewarding

I almost use bad words if only conia didnt remind me that you accuse me as your character.

do not do this, ever, please. Just because you are whichever character you are doesn't mean you should roleplay your character's hatreds towards others as that just makes things super awkward for the people around you (similar to when you blew up at DT that one round and played it off as "chianti hates vermouth so I was RPing" or something) and thus unfun.

It is actually a different matter. I told him that, if accused by anything, to respond with his character and abilities, like claiming another characters/abilities, same style Kleene or Schillok use for defending theirselves.

[Akonyl]

Who's winning, who's winning... looks like we have a tie between Sherlock and Akonyl. Someone must leave, there's no other way to fix this... I was hoping this wasn't brought up, but there's some people whose vote is worth DOUBLE, and will hopefully define this.

generally, if you're hoping that the game wouldn't come to actually use your reward, that's an indication that you subconsciously knew you shouldn't have rewarded the reward in the first place. So, note to future GMs

Oi oi, leave my subconcious out of this But that's correct. Not that future GMs will have to worry about Task rewarding

future GMs may not make stalker rounds, but the idea of "don't give rewards you'll regret" is an idea that future GMs should keep in mind as well.

(fun fact: I intentionally sabotaged the "random" dreams in my round during Night 2 so that they gave out hardly any information so that they made as little game impact as possible )

as for the second part: Fair enough, guess I read it incorrectly.

[Abs.]

It wasn't so much as I was accusing him "in character," I was voicing my observations of his actions/words in the thread.  xpon for some reason took that as "I KNOW YOU ACCUSE ME BECAUSE YOU HATE ME BUT THIS IS MAFIA SO I PROMISE JD- AND CONIA I WILL BE GOOD THIS ROUND WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM"

Basically, pulling an Akemi~chan

[nomemory]

she suspect me. so i help her to stay alive but she wont lynched me.

just like others when they threat the criminal last round

or nom threat kain.


it was called blackmail

What?

Also, according to my observations of this round you've been quite childish

[Schillok]

she suspect me. so i help her to stay alive but she wont lynched me.

just like others when they threat the criminal last round

or nom threat kain.


it was called blackmail

Ewww, so it really was like that. You know that because of your drama we had to take the 50% chance to poison Breva (Takagi or Chiba?) instead for the sure-kill on Yurikochan.
Yes, it paid off, but as a BO I hated that moment. I was already suspecting that you were working together with her. Yes, I even considered on killing YOU, Xpon.

Next time just SAY that you are somehow working together with a townie. Don't make us change orders on the last minute again and jeopardize our win. There is no point in admitting you are BO, ever.
And if someone blackmails you as BO - kill him/her!

Who's winning, who's winning... looks like we have a tie between Sherlock and Akonyl. Someone must leave, there's no other way to fix this... I was hoping this wasn't brought up, but there's some people whose vote is worth DOUBLE, and will hopefully define this.

generally, if you're hoping that the game wouldn't come to actually use your reward, that's an indication that you subconsciously knew you shouldn't have rewarded the reward in the first place. So, note to future GMs

Oi oi, leave my subconcious out of this But that's correct. Not that future GMs will have to worry about Task rewarding

future GMs may not make stalker rounds, but the idea of "don't give rewards you'll regret" is an idea that future GMs should keep in mind as well.

(fun fact: I intentionally sabotaged the "random" dreams in my round during Night 2 so that they gave out hardly any information so that they made as little game impact as possible )

as for the second part: Fair enough, guess I read it incorrectly.

Yeah, the voting rewards were a double-edged sword. As a BO they were good for us. Would have been even better if we got them later in the game. Also, if Shihokudo had bothered to change her avatar and get the vote reduction during day 3 the BO could have lynched a townie who also didn't participate just with their own votes. I don't think that should happen.
A one-vote reduction would probably have been the better choice.

It is similar to the Personal Objectives for the BO during my round. It seemed good on paper (and the town seemed to like theirs), but some aspects did not turn out so well. Though just like with the POs: It is something that has to be tried out and that can be avoided in future games.

Seeing it from the "good" side: The lynching vote against Akonyl was decided because a BO with double vote power voted for him. From the voting townies 2 of them had double votes, and both voted for different victims. So in the end they balanced each other out and it was the BO who made the difference.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Xpon used the pout-method (being sad and angry when being accused). Seems it kinda worked for some people

But insulting people isn't good xpon, even when roleplaying D: If you wanna roleplay, then make it so that people will see that you actually do. Or attach a note with: "I'm roleplaying, don't take me too serious now". Tho even then, no insults

[bluekaitou1412]

*points at my sig*

[Schillok]

Well, should we start with the post-game evaluation? Meaning to figure out the problems that this game had so we can prevent repeating it again. And of course also to talk about its good points.

Some were already mentioned:

-> The rewards effecting the voting were much more useful for the BO and - at least at that point during the game - not for the town.
-> Other things I might have missed.

Another thing... I think the number of BO was too high. Right when the game started, 8 BO seemed too much for me. Yeah, at that point no one could know how the game developed. But as it turned out it was quite one-sided and over too quickly. (More quickly than anyone had anticipated, probably.)
Again it shows that number of BO = 1/3 of players - 1 is probably the more balanced choice.

Also, playing Irish again - this time he felt much better. On par with Vermouth. Asami was a nice disguise (and the tricking reward to trick twice also helped...), Shinichi allowed for more investigations and might have been useful in the right situation (ironically, we had 9 investigations to see if Parkur observed someone - and missed his target. On the other hand, since he was Sonoko we should be glad about that result since we likely would have wasted an APTX on him, unless we stole a headgear or schoolbook from her before poisoning) and Chiba decided the game. Though, the other two disguises (Araide and Ran) were pretty much useless for BO. So the number of disguises feels okay. Abduction also was good - but not too strong. We would have known that Abs was Yusaku even without abducting Kogoro, since we knew he was an adult and only 4 townies had died when he interrogated Shihokudo. (And since we just erased Eri we knew Kogoro would have been drunk).
The game was not long enough to see how "re-choose disguises" would have worked, but the night of inactivity in between will help to prevent him from being too good.
There is just one issue: I was able to arrest without much disadvantages if I failed. The only downside was that I would have to wait one more night until I could abduct. Yuriko could even try an arrest without any negative consequences with her final costume (since she would not be disguised the next day as well). Though, not being able to do anything night 1 and night 5 is already a high price that might justify that little bonus to these two roles.

Also, only being able to use night abilities balances him nicely to not be better than Vermouth. Even if Kobayashi-sensei is not a perfect disguise for Vermouth, her Voice of Reason - which could not have been used by Irish - compensated for it. 


About the other BO members:

Anokata: I like how he is so hard to find out, but has a bad time trying to blend in the town as well. I think he is fine the way he is.
Gin: Very useful. I think that slandering a townie and a BO was a good change to him. Also, his investigate that he can use in addition to it makes him very good for the BO.
Vermouth: Always liked her role. Even with a power that can not help us to identify townies like in this game, the "not BO" interrogation result and everything make her a solid addition.
Pisco: Not sure about him. Obviously, the Bribe ability is great. Erasing is also useful. But otherwise he is... so... not doing anything. Can't we give him a simple, repeatable ability? Like Special Investigate? Or would that make him to close to Kir?
Vodka: We talked about it before. His discombobulation is certainly useful. But somehow it can't really compete with the other BO roles. Maybe we could give him Investigate 2? He is working with Gin all the time, so making him investigate at 40% compared to Gin doesn't feel overpowered. Also, it lessens the dependency of the BO on Gin starting on their side to investigate. The disadvantage is of course that it of course that he could now try to pretend to be a trickster OR an investigator.
Akemi: The stealing is so useful to find out peoples identities if you know a few things about them. Also, the missing scent might be useful. I think she is fine - there is a reason why Calvados covers her so often.
Calvados: Speaking of Calvados - he was not in the game - but I think there was enough testing on him now. And his ability turned out alright. Maybe we could allow him to become a bit more flexible - by not forcing him to decide on someone to cover during the day? So he can decide during the night who he wants to cover. Of course we will leave the restriction that he can only use ONE ability of the copied ally. The main disadvantage: It makes BO nights even more complicated. More options means more chaos.
Korn: Snipers are good. Especially since they now get through healing. Still, Korns stake-out feels so inferior to Chiantis observe. I think something has to be done about Korn to not make wish the BO they had Chinati in almost any situation. Not sure what though.


Anything else? Well, nothing that comes to my mind right now.
The tasks were great, though the rewards were quite dangerous. That was a lot of extra abilities for both town and BO. Especially since there was a new task almost every phase.
On the other hand, it really felt refreshing trying to solve them and the rewards also felt like a good motivation.  And it seems like the rewards somehow balanced each other out, most of the time.

Wish the round had been longer - less BO would have helped, but with 2 mislynches and 3 poisonings (followed by another 2 next day) and 1 townie arrest against only a single lynched BO (and no arrests) - the round would have ended soon anyway. Of course it is hard to predict if we were missing a key player or what else might have gone different then.
But again: This is something that just happens sometimes. It certainly was not the first time...

[Kleene Onigiri]

erased Eri we knew Kogoro would have been drunk

Kogoro always starts drunk :V

I was yukiko... but I died night 1 so I dunno how it is :x (inb4 getting shinichi XD)

Anokata: I like how he is so hard to find out, but has a bad time trying to blend in the town as well. I think he is fine the way he is.
Gin: Very useful. I think that slandering a townie and a BO was a good change to him. Also, his investigate that he can use in addition to it makes him very good for the BO.
Vermouth: Always liked her role. Even with a power that can not help us to identify townies like in this game, the "not BO" interrogation result and everything make her a solid addition.
Pisco: Not sure about him. Obviously, the Bribe ability is great. Erasing is also useful. But otherwise he is... so... not doing anything. Can't we give him a simple, repeatable ability? Like Special Investigate? Or would that make him to close to Kir?
Vodka: We talked about it before. His discombobulation is certainly useful. But somehow it can't really compete with the other BO roles. Maybe we could give him Investigate 2? He is working with Gin all the time, so making him investigate at 40% compared to Gin doesn't feel overpowered. Also, it lessens the dependency of the BO on Gin starting on their side to investigate. The disadvantage is of course that it of course that he could now try to pretend to be a trickster OR an investigator.
Akemi: The stealing is so useful to find out peoples identities if you know a few things about them. Also, the missing scent might be useful. I think she is fine - there is a reason why Calvados covers her so often.
Calvados: Speaking of Calvados - he was not in the game - but I think there was enough testing on him now. And his ability turned out alright. Maybe we could allow him to become a bit more flexible - by not forcing him to decide on someone to cover during the day? So he can decide during the night who he wants to cover. Of course we will leave the restriction that he can only use ONE ability of the copied ally. The main disadvantage: It makes BO nights even more complicated. More options means more chaos.
Korn: Snipers are good. Especially since they now get through healing. Still, Korns stake-out feels so inferior to Chiantis observe. I think something has to be done about Korn to not make wish the BO they had Chinati in almost any situation. Not sure what though.

Hm... I wouldn't give every BO a investigationable ability, like s.investigate to pisco and investigate to vodka. Otherwise there will be no use for the Black suitcase soon. Would be better to give them a day ability or a passive ability or a ability that comes with killing instead.
And special investigate in general could be too powerful in the BO's hand. Because they can try to find a trickster or healer that way after they know that someone got tricked/healed or maybe even stolen from. They would know who isn't KID or even find KID :V

Well, Calvados is ok that way. I think it's not necessary to let Calvados choose during night which ability he wants to use. Since the current way you need to follow a strategy and stuff :x
@Korn: Hm... It's true that you prefer observe over stake-out :V But stake-out can be useful too. And having 2 observers would be maybe too powerful too, in case both snipers are in the game.

[Detective Tommy]

Sorry we killed you so early Kleene.