Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Edogawa4869]

you can't just say that and not suggest something for it to do

I was hoping that the definition of the word subpoena would be enough... ^^'

Anyway, after thinking again for about two minutes, I'm thinking that the person who was subpoenaed should be notified.

[Akonyl]

you can't just say that and not suggest something for it to do

I was hoping that the definition of the word subpoena would be enough... ^^'

Anyway, after thinking again for about two minutes, I'm thinking that the person who was subpoenaed should be notified.

you'd still need to further the explanation imo, because it's not like there's a court in the game or anything to use its actual purpose.

[Dus]

you can't just say that and not suggest something for it to do

I was hoping that the definition of the word subpoena would be enough... ^^'

Anyway, after thinking again for about two minutes, I'm thinking that the person who was subpoenaed should be notified.

you'd still need to further the explanation imo, because it's not like there's a court in the game or anything to use its actual purpose.

Maybe it works in conjunction with an arrest? I still like my idea better.

[Eve]

Also, I've voted: It is time to introduce a 3rd faction!!!!!! XD When will we get this ?

[Dus]

Also, I've voted: It is time to introduce a 3rd faction!!!!!! XD When will we get this ?

Totally unrelated: Dibs on round 18.

[Eve]

Also, I've voted: It is time to introduce a 3rd faction!!!!!! XD When will we get this ?

Totally unrelated: Dibs on round 18.

That worked, too I think I can join round 18 XD

[Kleene Onigiri]

Kir/James
I think Kir is good with the special investigate. But people won't use betray so often then (just if they dunno what to investigate).
Not sure if it's necessary, but maybe changing it so, that Kir can use special investigate and Betray every night. Since Kir can get to know the same role in the BO in a row too.
But then, James would be pretty lame with just special investigate, when Kir can use 2 abilities at night. Dunno what to give James then? Special Investigate 2? But on the other hand, Kir has the interrogation result "BO", meaning a higher risk. So, it would be ok to let her be able to do both abilities while james black will keep just special investigate.

I don't particularly think James needs to be given much more tbh, because of the whole "kir=BO" thing like you said. But if he does need to be given more, perhaps he could be told which FBI roles are in the game, rather than just how many?

Yeah. That's why I think just making Kir stronger and leaving James like he is is better
But the idea of who exactly of the FBIs are in the game sounds good. But, in case vermouth disguises as him again, it could be too good for the BO? They would know if they have to poison Camel or Jodie. Or if they have to watch out for Akai.

Vengeance/Revenge
Vengeance from Akai is still not being used usually, since Akai is rarely being lynched D: He usually get's killed before that by the BO :x
Revenge from the Snipers on the other hand is used a lot. Especially since they can use it when lynched or arrested. Which makes them maybe too powerful now that they have stake-out/observe too. So, maybe reducing revenge on just lynch? Or lynch and normal arrest, without House search. Or the other way round, just injures lynching and house search, and normal arresting won't injure the police officer?

Anyway, I thought Vengeance could be similar to revenge then. That Akai will injure someone when being lynched and will also injure the one that killed him during the night (even snipers). He just won't injure someone when he was APTXed.
For that, the snipers will injure while lynched and successfully house searched. But won't injure an officer when they arrest them in the normal way (normal arrest).

I agree with having it injure on house search but not arrest (as if house search is always > arrest, why have arrest on megure/shiratori anyway?)

I gave them arrest, because they can loose house search when the house search fails. Still, if it fails, they can still use the normal arrest afterward.

As for Akai, I'm fine with that, however I would recommend that he has to choose between bone-breaking and vengeance during the night, so that he has to choose between protecting someone else from sniping (bone-breaking) and or hurting whoever attacks him (vengeance), and can't do both.

I dunno. I think if he has to choose, everyone would do vengeance and never use bone-break (or almost never D:) Similar to special investigate and betrayal. Even tho betrayal sounds good, people would rather use special investigate D:
And to get the right target to protect is hard. And then to be lucky and getting the sniper in that phase makes it even harder D: Tho not impossible.


And yeah, to take down the current snipers, you always get a townie injured. So at least normal arrest shouldn't get the player injured. And arresting them correctly will be hard then anyway.

Same with Akai, in case we up his vengeance. Just APTX will hinder his ability, which would also be hard, I hope XD.

As for giving Pisco another ability, that seems like it would be good, as he doesn't do a *whole* lot atm. Also, if you just wanted to have him stay on the whole "erase" thing, you could make it so that when he APTXes people, he steals their wills (just like when he kills someone) instead.

Well. I think if you can choose the BO roles you can have, then pisco, even with a good ability like erase, he will be one of the last BOs that will be chosen. And abduct would be like xpons "I tell you 1-3 roles not in the game". Just that abduct will be usable from night 2+
Also, if you give out less BOs, then the BO roles themselves have to be good enough so that the Town doesn't have it too easy.

*has been thinking for about three minutes* What about some type of subpoena action? Still not sure if it'd work, but I thought I'd just throw it out there...

For eri? XD or a police? xD

The Lovers: the idea of having objectives for them to meet in order to win (rather than having to make sure everyone else dies) seems like a good idea, though I dunno how that would work in the actual game. If they're added in, it should be a set goal for every BO-Town pair/every game, then it's the same across the board and we don't have to worry about the random stuff or wonder what exactly they're trying to do.

Well, it would be fix when it's "get the overall player amount down to 1/3". Which is basically, "Survive long enough!" And if you add the "kill certain players in the game", then the lovers also have too plan things out and not be passive and try to be lucky and not getting killed :x

I can't think of anything else :V Telling them to kill certain roles would reveal them that those roles are in the game (and be good for APTX)

I like random stuff. Depending on how hard that aim is to achieve it should be announced though.

Maybe Eri could find out whether someone has committed a crime, without being told what crimes they are?

How do you plan that? "Player A did a crime"?
Could backfire in case the only crime left would be killing :V

But I still think there needs to be 1 more healer/First aider D: Since Kobayashi and Araide are fast to find out with stealing :V Or in case 1 dies, the other one will be obviously the other one left D:

As to how to implement it, just make it another night ability?

That's treated the same as interrogate, so she can blend in better. Maybe take away one of her two current abilities so she's not overpowered?

But that could bee to powerful with the house search combination D:
You plan in revealing a player, right? D:

[Dus]

Black learning which FBIs are in the game sounds good to me. In case someone is disguised as one of his subordinates, will he learn which one is disguised?

As to what I had planned for Eri:
She asks
"Dus has committed a crime"
and gets a Yes/NO answer.
Works similiarly to interrogate, because it's possible that a BO hasn't committed a crime or that she "subpoenas" Eisuke/Asami/Kid.

[Akonyl]

Maybe it works in conjunction with an arrest? I still like my idea better.

maybe, but it's still unclear.

Also, now that shiratori's been made a house arrester, I think something needs to be done about satou. Takagi/Chiba are unique because they have house arrest, but as it stands, satou is just a worse version of megure/shiratori, as she doesn't have house search, just arrest/investigate. So, something I propose:

Detain
Night/Day action
-May detain any player at any time. The player will be arrested automatically, whether or not they've committed a crime.
-Will not be told what crimes that person has or hasn't committed.
-May not detain the same player more than once.
-May only detain one person at a time.
-May release those she has detained at any point, similar to Lawsuit (but also during the day).
-May not release someone and detain someone else in the same phase.

How useful is this? No clue, but it would give her something interesting, and could maybe backfire if she uses it incorrectly. It's the Eisuke approach to helping the town.

though, if there's a better suggestion, I'd be for that as well, I just don't want her to be blatantly inferior to the inspectors.

Yeah. That's why I think just making Kir stronger and leaving James like he is is better
But the idea of who exactly of the FBIs are in the game sounds good. But, in case vermouth disguises as him again, it could be too good for the BO? They would know if they have to poison Camel or Jodie. Or if they have to watch out for Akai.

true, perhaps a clause could be put in where vermouth doesn't actually figure out what FBI are in the game if she's James, similar to how a vermouth-cop can't arrest for blamed actions?

I gave them arrest, because they can loose house search when the house search fails. Still, if it fails, they can still use the normal arrest afterward.

ah, true.

And true about bone-breaking, because it's not really all that good.

As to how to implement it, just make it another night ability?

That's treated the same as interrogate, so she can blend in better. Maybe take away one of her two current abilities so she's not overpowered?

But that could bee to powerful with the house search combination D:
You plan in revealing a player, right? D:

I think what Dus means for eri is she'd have an ability where she just goes
"Has Akonyl committed any crimes?" and she'd get a yes/no response. So, she wouldn't know if it was because I'd killed, slandered, stolen, disguised, discombobulated, blamed, etc.
Though, it might be powerful with house search, dunno.

[Eve]

I think what Dus means for eri is she'd have an ability where she just goes
"Has Akonyl committed any crimes?" and she'd get a yes/no response. So, she wouldn't know if it was because I'd killed, slandered, stolen, disguised, discombobulated, blamed, etc.
Though, it might be powerful with house search, dunno.

I also think it's too powerful especially with house search

[PT]

Well, it would be fix when it's "get the overall player amount down to 1/3". Which is basically, "Survive long enough!" And if you add the "kill certain players in the game", then the lovers also have too plan things out and not be passive and try to be lucky and not getting killed :x

I can't think of anything else :V Telling them to kill certain roles would reveal them that those roles are in the game (and be good for APTX)

Well yeah, like we could make it that: Get the player count down to 1/3 + certain roles have to die. And you could actually do that without telling them what roles are in the game. You could give them a list of 10 roles (some of which are in the game, some of which may not be), and then they have to find a way to have a certain number (3, maybe?) of those roles killed?

If that makes sense at all.

And maybe give that to the BO/BO or Town/Town pairs too (though, maybe a different list of roles for each pair, if there's more than one per game), that way they can try to pull off a lover's win if they want?

Black learning which FBIs are in the game sounds good to me. In case someone is disguised as one of his subordinates, will he learn which one is disguised?

If we give him the ability to know which roles are in the game, I would say "no" on finding out if one is disguised or which one it is. I know right now he can know that one of them is disguised but then again, he doesn't know which roles are in the game (unless all of them are). Or he can maybe know that one of them is disguised, but definitely not which one it is.

Detain
Night/Day action
-May detain any player at any time. The player will be arrested automatically, whether or not they've committed a crime.
-Will not be told what crimes that person has or hasn't committed.
-May not detain the same player more than once.
-May only detain one person at a time.
-May release those she has detained at any point, similar to Lawsuit (but also during the day).
-May not release someone and detain someone else in the same phase.

How useful is this? No clue, but it would give her something interesting, and could maybe backfire if she uses it incorrectly. It's the Eisuke approach to helping the town.

Actually, I kinda like this idea. XD

[Dus]

I like the idea 'bout Satou but aren't we making the town too powerful too fast?

Well, if you think someone is BO then chances are they've committed a crime. It would make house search foolproof but the two players have to cooperate.

[Akonyl]

I like the idea 'bout Satou but aren't we making the town too powerful too fast?

Well, if you think someone is BO then chances are they've committed a crime. It would make house search foolproof but the two players have to cooperate.

what else about the town are we making powerful? All I saw/remember was the akai change for the most part, which isn't that huge a deal.

Anyway, maybe, but for the most part I just don't like satou being just a bad version of megure.

As to another healer like kleene was suggesting, that could be done too, but the only question is of course who to use :V

[Kleene Onigiri]

Lovers
Town/town and BO/BO lovers have it easier now with lovey-dovey. Still, for town/BO lovers it's almost impossible to win. So, maybe in case there will be BO/Town lovers, giving them a certain task or options how they can win?

I believe it's possible though Try me XD as long as they're not an "expected pair" and they know how to lie good

Like, both have to get arrested. So, if they manage that without being found out, they win with whoever side wins (since they are together forever in prison <3) Not sure if that's too easy or not? Since, even in prison, they can still give out info to BO and/or town if they want. (or get freed by Eri XD)

No, the reason you have stated as above XD Even death didn't even prevent them from betraying a certain Org.

Too easy? Not sure. You have to have a role with a crime ability, otherwise you need to have anokata in the game, which isn't given.
Then you also have to find a police officer that arrests you :V If BO finds out you look for a police, you'll get in trouble? XD
And a townie wanting to be arrested is strange too. Especially since the town would still loose a possible vote against the BO, it's not smart to arrest a townie (especially if the BO partner could stay free) :V

Or maybe, that they have to reduce the number of player to 1/3
So, with 20 players, it would be 21/3=7. So, they have to reduce the amount of players that are still in the game (so, aren't dead or arrested) to 7 (including the lovers). A arrested lover would count either as "not in the game" or "still in the game", not sure here yet D:

The thing is, Town numbers are more than BOs, so if I'm Town/BO lover, the town would side with BO and win while BO might have tied the number of players with pol, or tied and won without pol... in other words, that's an additional BO role  who's town

Or the lovers have to take out certain players(randomly chosen by the GM) + yumi (tho yumi could be one of the chosen players too). This way the lovers have to direct the BO and town into killing those players without being found out.

Then what? there are usually ~20-30 players, what happened after a certain player is killed, plus Yumi? If BO still have the chance to win, will they be deemed as the losers? not to mention, that's increasing the chances of lover siding with BO, thus increasing a BO player

Or maybe making a mix even. So they have to reduce the alive players to 1/3. But if not all chosen players to take out are dead or arrested, then even with 7 people alive (like in the example), the lovers didn't win yet as long as the chose victims aren't dead/arrested yet.

Maybe..... I'm leaning toward this, XD

This is just a suggestion :V But the BO/town lovers have it especially hard. Even harder in a large game.

You'd think I still think town/bo has a chance as long as they're active enough, one of them can be in a town alliance with their role proven and everything , the important thing is how the Bo lover manage the BO side so BO believes that they don't have a lover and is the spy themselves

It's still harder than BO/BO or Town/Town lovers And seeing the BO/Town lovers wining would be fun too XD

And yea, I tend to the mixing option, since it's sounds the best D:
And the lovers would win, meaning town and BO looses, even tho they could have kept on playing :x

APTX
I like the 3 APTX rule But when the APTX won't be used up when successful, then it should be clarified if the BO lover of a BO/town pair can aptx his own BO members. I didn't allow it in round 16 D:

This shouldn't be allowed I can't believe Eric wanted to do this...

He didn't wanted to do it I told him together with the PM that he got that he's Akemi that he can't do that. Since I noticed that "flaw" when I agreed on BO/lover pair D:

Arrest/House search
Arrest and House search aren't the same actions when investigated or with stake-out. So, maybe changing it into the same action? Tho that's just important for the BO probably.

Well... since I didn't really read the rules on this, can you elaborate XD?

Lazy bum
Well, House search and arrest are 2 different actions, meaning if you investigate house search, but that player used arrest, then you will get a "false"
So, maybe making it the same action when investigating. Tho that's not really necessary I guess D: But that question came up in round 16

Healers/Protectors
The protectors are now a little more save from APTX with lovey-dovey and Akai's bone break in the game. Tho still not very much.
But Araide and Kobayashi as healers have it harder. So, maybe giving Eri also First Aid? Tho she already has voice of reason and lawsuit, those abilities are used rarely, and also can be just used once per game. And I think Eri is a role that is fitting for First Aid too.
Maybe even giving another completely new healer or protector?

No, we have an awesome amount of healers/protectors, and if they're patient enough, they can really hit the jackpot while waiting won't kill them at all I think Eri can obtain maybe a "Judgment" ability, something that'll allow her to maybe detect BS XD I don't know, but I sure don't want another healers XD

It won't change the amount of healers/protector in the game. If the GM sees that there are too many protector types in the game, he should balance that imo
But this is to prevent a easy APTX towards the healers. Since, if you say you can heal, and Araide dies, you're dead meat the next day

Ran/Kogoro
Ran is a protector that get's injured. Also, in case the BO finds out that the protector is ran and is already injured, they won't kill her during the night, and maybe just APTX her. But in case they APTX her, Kogoro could get sober. Meaning she's totally useless after 1 protection and can't even die :x
So, if Kogoro is in the game and just Ran, which hinders him to get sober, it would be bad for the Kogoro player (and the town overall).
I thought, since Ran is useless after 1 protect, to make it more worth getting injured (since players usually don't feel like protecting with Ran).
So, when Ran get's injured because of protecting someone, then Kogoro will get sober, because well, it's his daughter.
But maybe it should be just for night protection. So, if Ran get's injured during the day, Kogoro won't get sober. Otherwise the Ran player could protect everyone during Day 1 and get injured on purpose, which get's Kogoro sober kinda fast.

Hmmmm.... I think you do have a point but then we have to balance it out with BO, too, as having Kogoro used to be a disadvatage that balanced out the protector R*n's advantage, if Ran is injured, Kogoro sobered, then maybe Irish/Vermouth will be affected somehow, too

Hm... why should the BO get a advantage from that? D: Getting to protect the right target at night will be hard :x So it won't be a sure way to get Kogoro sober anyway D:
It mostly to prevent to have kogoro drunk forever because the BO doesn't want to kill Ran XD

Kir/James
I think Kir is good with the special investigate. But people won't use betray so often then (just if they dunno what to investigate).
Not sure if it's necessary, but maybe changing it so, that Kir can use special investigate and Betray every night. Since Kir can get to know the same role in the BO in a row too.
But then, James would be pretty lame with just special investigate, when Kir can use 2 abilities at night. Dunno what to give James then? Special Investigate 2? But on the other hand, Kir has the interrogation result "BO", meaning a higher risk. So, it would be ok to let her be able to do both abilities while james black will keep just special investigate.

Well, if people used it often enough, they'll gain more from it I don't understand why someone wants to special investigate when they have no lead, and taking a chance with ONE investigate is just... weird while betray on the other hand can really help them.... If we increase Kir, we'd have to increase James, then increase BO's abilities, seeing as Kir can know who will be doing what AND investigate a certain player in the same night yet it'll be useless all the like if the player have no alliance and randomly doing random things

Don't think we need to increase james, since Kir has "BO" interrogation :x
But well, some people prever some actions over others. And it usually depends on the situation.
I as James always wanted to have at least 3 more special investigates, because I had so many people I wanted to prove that they have a real ability XD

I think that's all I noticed. I had some ideas for new roles like Nakamori or Yamamura :x But the already in game roles are more important D:

Yeah, let's hold off on them

Meanie

[Dus]

I like the idea 'bout Satou but aren't we making the town too powerful too fast?

Well, if you think someone is BO then chances are they've committed a crime. It would make house search foolproof but the two players have to cooperate.

what else about the town are we making powerful? All I saw/remember was the akai change for the most part, which isn't that huge a deal.

Anyway, maybe, but for the most part I just don't like satou being just a bad version of megure.

As to another healer like kleene was suggesting, that could be done too, but the only question is of course who to use :V

The change for Eri I proposed, but there's no love for it anyway. ;_;
Your proposal would make Satou almost as powerful as Megure. What if Vermouth disguises as Satou? Then the BO could get rid of two townies a night.