ESPIONAGE: Campaign Round - DETECTIVES AND CIVILIANS WIN!

[Jd-]

I'm still thinking about what to do next (I had one idea ready just then but I want to do some more thinking before settling into just one path for this phase).

Anyone have thoughts about SA's idea?

[shinichi'sapprentice]

dem fast edits xD

i'll be waitin'~

anyway, i forgot to say, i- nvm it doesn't really work this round

moving on...

there have been issues before on a similar strategy called "fake investigates" where everyone posts a name of three people and label one of 'em as NOT SPY ...though, what most people did was just post one person they have "proven" NOT SPY <.< ...it's hard coming up with fake investigates with three people after all. but anyway, the problem was that if a civilian labeled someone as NOT SPY and that person is actually THE SPY, then the spy would just skip on killing that person since they'd automatically know they're not the detective. but with the "iVote 2 plus^TM" strategy ...yes xD we're not really relying on the posts of everyone but with the votes right at the end of Day 2. meaning, the spies' kills are still shot in the dark until the end of Day 2 as oppose to people labeling people as NOT SPY during Day 2 where the spy narrows down who is not detective and saves them the trouble of wasting their kills. hope my comparison was... clear... xD

anyway... iVote 2 plus^TM works best Day 2. there has only been ONE proven NOT SPY by each detective and as i suggested in my previous post, you can hide it by giving another person +2 votes. giving another person +2 votes will also help civilians that are not confident on who they should give +2 votes wherein that person actually ends up as the spy which means they just botched their chance on helping the detective out on hiding among the civilians. i think of this more of a reference strategy than a long-term strategy. so, civilians, fear not of accidentally giving a spy a +2 votes since you can opt to give another person a +2 vote and cover that mistake. the real detective can even accidentally vote the spy just so he can hide the real result which then gives him cover with the spies thinking he's not the detective since he was given +2 votes.

EDIT:
now, the fun starts with who will try to exchange +2 votes with people or just simply try to buy any amount of votes at this exact phase or will anyone try at all 8D i have laid out the most disadvantageous thing i can think of of my proposed idea above and has also offered a solution. please do tell me what you think. discuss or object

[Fujiwara]

Wow, that looks like a real massacre.

@SA:
I'm really not sure what you're trying to do that. As you noticed yourself, the drawback of the +2 strategy is the same as the drawback of the Fake Investigate strategy: If a civilian 'clears' a Spy, that Spy will know they're not the Detective.
If, on the other hand, the Detective gives +2 to 2 different people on Day 2, it completely destroys the original aim of letting us know his results, since we won't know which of the 2 was actually cleared. How is that supposed to be helpful? Since the 2nd person could actually be a Spy, we can't do anything with the fact that one of the 2 people he voted is cleared.
Also, there is a chance of one or both Detectives not having cleared anyone yet, which again would put us on the wrong track if they just randomly give +2 to someone.
All in all, I don't see this strategy working very well.

[Raiden]

dem fast edits xD

i'll be waitin'~

anyway, i forgot to say, i- nvm it doesn't really work this round

moving on...

there have been issues before on a similar strategy called "fake investigates" where everyone posts a name of three people and label one of 'em as NOT SPY ...though, what most people did was just post one person they have "proven" NOT SPY <.< ...it's hard coming up with fake investigates with three people after all. but anyway, the problem was that if a civilian labeled someone as NOT SPY and that person is actually THE SPY, then the spy would just skip on killing that person since they'd automatically know they're not the detective. but with the "iVote 2 plus^TM" strategy ...yes xD we're not really relying on the posts of everyone but with the votes right at the end of Day 2. meaning, the spies' kills are still shot in the dark until the end of Day 2 as oppose to people labeling people as NOT SPY during Day 2 where the spy narrows down who is not detective and saves them the trouble of wasting their kills. hope my comparison was... clear... xD

anyway... iVote 2 plus^TM works best Day 2. there has only been ONE proven NOT SPY by each detective and as i suggested in my previous post, you can hide it by giving another person +2 votes. giving another person +2 votes will also help civilians that are not confident on who they should give +2 votes wherein that person actually ends up as the spy which means they just botched their chance on helping the detective out on hiding among the civilians. i think of this more of a reference strategy than a long-term strategy. so, civilians, fear not of accidentally giving a spy a +2 votes since you can opt to give another person a +2 vote and cover that mistake. the real detective can even accidentally vote the spy just so he can hide the real result which then gives him cover with the spies thinking he's not the detective since he was given +2 votes.

EDIT:
now, the fun starts with who will try to exchange +2 votes with people or just simply try to buy any amount of votes at this exact phase or will anyone try at all 8D i have laid out the most disadvantageous thing i can think of of my proposed idea above and has also offered a solution. please do tell me what you think. discuss or object

I can think of another large flaw in your "Vote +2™" strategy. It can work but would require the cooperation of all of us. If only a few of us go along with it, say 8 as an example, and the two of them are detectives. It's a huge favour to the Spy side as their chance to kill at least one detective among those 8 the next day is considerably larger.

Just wanted to point that out. ^^;

[MDavid]

hey MDavid, care to explain your vote on her?

Sure. My votes went to the people who actually posted something helpful.

[Jd-]

I appreciate SA's initiative, and on the surface, it definitely has the potential to help, but I'm worried that we don't really have enough info or enough momentum to really make it count right now. So, as of right now, I'm not really confident in doing it. Later in the game, though, it may help a lot.

What may be more effective is for us to all mention people we trust, as time goes on. The Detectives should be very careful about who they mention, of course, because if they die soon afterward, we're going to get the wrong impression about what they meant.

Currently, I have a good feeling about Raiden. Along with Fujiwara and a few others. I was feeling pretty sure that Togop was definitely a civilian, and then that obviously turned out... well, how it did.

Raiden: I'll be giving you +2 votes. If you trust me, I'd be much obliged to see some votes from you as well.

I'm going to do a little thinking over the next little bit. Hmmmmm...

[shinichi'sapprentice]

...
If a civilian 'clears' a Spy, that Spy will know they're not the Detective...

...
giving another person +2 votes will also help civilians that are not confident on who they should give +2 votes wherein that person actually ends up as the spy which means they just botched their chance on helping the detective out on hiding among the civilians. i think of this more of a reference strategy than a long-term strategy. so, civilians, fear not of accidentally giving a spy a +2 votes since you can opt to give another person a +2 vote and cover that mistake.

...If, on the other hand, the Detective gives +2 to 2 different people on Day 2, it completely destroys the original aim of letting us know his results, since we won't know which of the 2 was actually cleared...

What would you think is better? Helping civilians narrow down two potential NOT SPY people or having civilians scramble to figure out who among more than ten people is NOT SPY when a detective dies?

...How is that supposed to be helpful? Since the 2nd person could actually be a Spy, we can't do anything with the fact that one of the 2 people he voted is cleared.

...Which then goes back to the spy skipping on killing the real detective who gave them a +2 votes in case HOPEFULLY both detectives live on

Also, there is a chance of one or both Detectives not having cleared anyone yet, which again would put us on the wrong track if they just randomly give +2 to someone.
All in all, I don't see this strategy working very well.

That... Is true... But even so, what IF they have already proven someone as NOT SPY? Would you let go of the chance of sharing who you have proven considering ANYTIME, the spies can kill them and it would be really detrimental dying without even leaving the civilians anything to go with when they get killed.

---

sneaky Raiden post appears...

...
I can think of another large flaw in your "Vote +2™" strategy. It can work but would require the cooperation of all of us. If only a few of us go along with it, say 8 as an example, and the two of them are detectives. It's a huge favour to the Spy side as their chance to kill at least one detective among those 8 the next day is considerably larger.

Just wanted to point that out. ^^;

Yes, thank you. Well, I wouldn't be suggesting this if the Day 1 results show that there was a huge number of inactive people around. But nope. Looks like this voting setup made sure that everyone would at least take a moment to send votes so they will not be eliminated. One reason I could think of that will prevent someone from not being able to participate is that they might be busy outside of the game. Or they just don't agree with me... xD Wouldn't it be better if all civilians and detectives unite this early in the game and confuse the hell out of this round's spies. Well, please do let me know of any other objections or any other points that you think have not been addressed yet and will really outweigh the benefits I presented. Much better if we could hear out more suggestions or ideas totally different from this.

---

sneaky MDavid post appears...

hey MDavid, care to explain your vote on her?

Sure. My votes went to the people who actually posted something helpful.

Ah. I see... To spark more discussions, at this point, did your spy suspects change at all? Who do you think is the most suspicious of being spy right now? And no. I am not paying you a vote with these questions. In Day 1, I already have reserved a vote for you even before I asked you a question so just in case you ask a vote in exchange for answering this question, the answer is no.

---

sneaky Jd- post appears...

ok Let me post this first before more post appears... xD

*goes to read latest post*

[Fujiwara]

...How is that supposed to be helpful? Since the 2nd person could actually be a Spy, we can't do anything with the fact that one of the 2 people he voted is cleared.

...Which then goes back to the spy skipping on killing the real detective who gave them a +2 votes in case HOPEFULLY both detectives live on

This is not really a given though, since if the Detective gives out +2 to 2 people, the Spy knows it doesn't mean anything even if he is among them. And not to mention, you still didn't tell me what we gain from this. As far as I can see, it's nothing at all. You don't narrow anything down. Sure, one of the 2 votees will be a non-Spy, but the other is an unknown element and you don't know which is which, so what are you going to do with that info? In the end, for us Civilians, it doesn't exclude anyone from being a Spy.

Of course the Detectives should ideally find a way to hint at their results without revealing their Detective-ness, but this doesn't seem like the best way to do so. I'll think some more on the matter myself, but ultimately it will be up to the Detectives to come up with a way to share their results as they see fit.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

...but ultimately it will be up to the Detectives to come up with a way to share their results as they see fit.

Of course.

[MDavid]

Ah. I see... To spark more discussions, at this point, did your spy suspects change at all? Who do you think is the most suspicious of being spy right now? And no. I am not paying you a vote with these questions.

Suddenly there is a truckload of information so I'm still working on it but the main suspects are the same so far. There is a variation of course. Nothing is free, you know. But I can tell you that distinguishing detectives and spies is harder than telling if someone is civilian or not.

In Day 1, I already have reserved a vote for you even before I asked you a question so just in case you ask a vote in exchange for answering this question, the answer is no.

I appreciate it, thanks...or not.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

ok before sleep completely take over...

@Fuji: i was rereading and just caught my attention...

"And not to mention, you still didn't tell me what we gain from this."

^just want to make sure which exactly do you mean? don't wanna leave any questions unanswered

*disappearzzz..?*

[Nemomon]

Anybody wants my votes? Anybody wants to give me some of their votes?

[Kaito Lady]

What a massacre

Okay, so I think Fuji is town and will get my vote.
I kinda trust Yuri and Raiden but I'm not entirely sure as of yet of those.

[MoonRaven]

*Notices what Stop wrote* Ah, no... As you can see it was what I remembered since when I wrote that pm I was on my phone and hadn't written up my list yet. so it was what I most likely had. Some are true and some might not be. I don't even remember my votes anymore...

[Jellitto]

Anybody wants my votes? Anybody wants to give me some of their votes?

Want to exchange +1 vote with me this phase?