Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Conia]

I still think Pisco's ability is too weak. He really should get to know the identity of the body. Someone before objected that it would enable someone to "disguise" as somebody. It's just like Vermouth, only with a lot more holes. There is a tip off in the form of an unidentified body in the morning, so the town will be on the alert for B.O. members taking up the dead person's mantle. It doesn't actually make you that person. If anyone interrogated the B.O. member pretending to be the erased person, or someone investigated the B.O. member about a night ability that the erased person would be expected to use they would figure it out.
The lack of uniqueness is part of the reason I liked Pisco mechanic one better, disguise the body as someone else so the false identity is presented to the town. The plan was to make a decent late game ability in the B.O. - one that could be used to throw a wrench into theories that townsfolk working together have built up. Maybe the mechanic 1 could be changed so that Pisco doesn't know the real identity of the body to keep the potential disguise element out, but keep the theory monkeywrenching part in.

Since Irish role was changed, sounds fair now that Pisco gets to know the identity of the erased one. So I'm changing that

[Akonyl]

makes sense too, in order to remove all traces of who someone was you'd pretty much have to learn who they were in the process.

[Schillok]

Well, since it looks like the town is in the process of winning again (despite the BO killing the two lovers during the first night  ).
This suggests it is time to increase the power of the BO, preferably without just giving them more members each round.

To me it seems like the disadvantage of revealing their own identity for the town members are too low compared to the (possible) advantages of doing so. The town can check multiple character claims during one night (thanks to investigation), but the BO can only kill one townie each time. That way the town is able to unify much faster than the BO being able to counter that.

Central point of that tactic is that players reveal their own identities.
The same is true for secret alliances of few players, deciding to trust each other (but keeping it secret from the other players). Even if a BO manages to infiltrate that group it would help little since it takes several nights to eliminate the players.

Coming to my suggestion:

I suggest giving every BO member one capsule of APTX4869 each game. Once per game (I am not yet sure about the timing, if it should be used during the night or during the day) every BO member can use this capsule and attempt to poison another player. However, since the townies are very wary during the BO invasion they have to know the special habits of that player - meaning the will have to know the exact role they are playing to make their attempt successful.
Neither the protectors, a healer or anyone else can prevent the poisoning. If the BO member is wrong with their guess (for example the target was Heiji instead of Shinichi), he will lose his APTX capsule and can not attempt this action again this game. Of course one (or more than one) of the other BOs can try again with their capsules next turn.
If the poisoning was successful (meaning the BO player discovered the correct identity), the targeted player will die. In that case the APTX of the BO player poisoning him will be gone as well. 


In game-rule text:

Each BO member gets one capsule of APTX4869 each game.

• Once per game a BO member can attempt to poison another player with APTX4869. He will send a PM to the GM telling the name of the player, and the identity (e.g. Conan, Satô) he attempts to poison. If the identity was correct that player will be killed (healing and protecting will not save that player). If the identity was wrong nothing happens.
• Either way that BO can not attempt another poisoning anymore during that game.

There is still room for suggestions:
1) When should the ability be used? During day, during night or at both times?
2) It would be possible to give the capsules only to some of the BO players. Only players who got a capsule can attempt a poisoning.
3) Methods of the town to protect against the APTX?

[Conia]

Giving BO more power seems fair, but the main problem (I discussed this with Chekhov after he left the game) is that every Town member has an ability. Roles are balanced now, so there's no weak role. Since the town is always the majority, the BO just can't control them all without being suspicious.

Some little things to think about decreasing number of investigations (and keep the 'Investigations work only with the actions in the current night' rule).
Only Investigations OR Interrogations for one character, not BOTH.
Arresting: Besides de usual, it has to specify the Phase in which the "bad" action happened.
Vermouth/Kid can't disguise as DBs, Haibara, Conan or BO.

I'll stick to this for now. When the current game ends, I'll post more (Especially detailes chosen by the GM)

[Akonyl]

the aptx thing seems pretty interesting, it keeps the townspeople weary of discussing things about their role out in the open because they could be killed for it.

[Schillok]

Giving BO more power seems fair, but the main problem (I discussed this with Chekhov after he left the game) is that every Town member has an ability. Roles are balanced now, so there's no weak role. Since the town is always the majority, the BO just can't control them all without being suspicious.

But giving the BO the ATPX would not change that every town member has an ability. It just forces them to be a little bit more careful with whom they trust. It would (hopefully) make the formation of alliances in the town a bit slower.
And shorten the length of a game a bit if the BO can kill a little bit faster.

Some little things to think about decreasing number of investigations (and keep the 'Investigations work only with the actions in the current night' rule).
Only Investigations OR Interrogations for one character, not BOTH.

Even the normal detectives (Shinichi, Conan, Heiji) can only either investigate or interrogate. I think that does not have to be change.
Investigations are also pretty weak, their major use is to confirm the roles of other players so far. Trying to guess a crime or action correctly is almost impossible so far.
The only way a character could do both investigation and interrogation would be the bow-tie or Kaito disguising as someone with interrogation. In that case I agree: The investigations/interrogations should not be additive, they have to chose from one of the options given.

Arresting: Besides de usual, it has to specify the Phase in which the "bad" action happened.
Vermouth/Kid can't disguise as DBs, Haibara, Conan or BO.

For what did arresting happen so far? Disguising (which doesn't need a specified phase since it is permanent) and killing(and we know the victim after each phase).
Did I miss a crime that was ever used to arrest a BO?
About disguising as Conan or Haibara: If they try to disguise as them, couldn't you just change their names to Shinichi or Shiho instead? Same role, no differences.
I agree with not disguising as DB though.

I'll stick to this for now. When the current game ends, I'll post more (Especially details chosen by the GM)

Well, some input from the BO players would be nice. For example Callid, considering he will be out of the game soon. 
As I said I never played BO. But to me it seems like the main danger for them is relative ease of the town-members to reveal their role without the BO having good choices to punish them for that. If all the players on town side have abilities even the knowledge of all the roles could not be enough for the BO even if they play perfectly.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I thought about some rules/roles too, and I got the idea about poisoning too xD But a little different.

I like the idea from Schillok that the BO can use APTX4869.
I would leave most of it like Schillok described.
So:
- APTX can't be prevented by anyone (healer, portector etc.)
- BO needs to know the role of the player ("BO gives Callid who is Araide the APTX" -> dies if he's Araide the next phase. Doesn't die if he's not)

I would add/change:
- The target doesn't know he was targeted (when the poisoning failed)
- There is a fixed number of APTX4869 for the whole BO (so if a BO dies, they won't lose the APTX4869)
- The "fixed number" isn't fixed, but depends on how many townspeople there are (Maybe the variable: x*1/3)
- Not a specific BO member uses the poison, but the "whole BO" gives the APTX4869 (so Anokata or the current BO leader gives the order who to poison. If the leader dies, a new leader will give the order)
- Should be a Day activity. So if they target the right one, the vote of that person doesn't count anymore (because he died during the day)

This is good to prevent the town to tell their role. But the town can still tell, what ability they have. "I can investigate" can be said publicly, because there are a lot of roles who can do that.

I also had an idea for poison. But not as a "whole BO ability" but an ability for Elena Miyano and/or Atsushi Miyano (because they are scientists)

- BO poisons someones possession
- All activities concerning him will give no result because that person was poisoned while doing so
- The BO needs to poison the possession during night. The poison holds for 1 day and 1 night.
- works on all abilities
- BO doesn't know who was poisoned
- Poisoned person can't be killed the following night, so they don't know why the killing failed (was healed or protected or poisoned)

e.g.:
- Night 2: Callids rubber duck is poisoned XD
- Sakina is Conan (Night 3): Sakina investigates
1. Xcommando disguised as Vermouth
2. Akonyl killed xpon
3. Callid killed Akonyl / Akonyl killed Callid (doesn't matter which way it is, since everything concerning callid will fail)
4. Beastly killed Akonyl
5. Holmes killed Akonyl

GM reply:
1. true
2. false
3. failed (here the detective got poisoned and went to the hospital)
4. failed (can't do that action anymore)
5. failed (can't do that action anymore)

or

Sakina interrogates Callid -> fails


Sakina as Sherry (Day 2): Follows Callid but it fails.

- Night 3: In both cases, Sakina can't be killed by BO (because they can't find her in the hospital)

Good for BO: Can hinder activities. Can make someone "immune" to abilities. May stop public announcements of activities (like in round 5, where I was told to investigate someone, although I couldn't)
Bad for BO: Needs to poison the right one. A lot of people could be poisoned and get "immune" to killing the following night.


I would put in both, APTX4869 and my poison idea XD
There could still be some flaws in my poison idea, but you get the idea.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Arresting: Besides de usual, it has to specify the Phase in which the "bad" action happened.
Vermouth/Kid can't disguise as DBs, Haibara, Conan or BO.

For what did arresting happen so far? Disguising (which doesn't need a specified phase since it is permanent) and killing(and we know the victim after each phase).
Did I miss a crime that was ever used to arrest a BO?
About disguising as Conan or Haibara: If they try to disguise as them, couldn't you just change their names to Shinichi or Shiho instead? Same role, no differences.
I agree with not disguising as DB though.

I was told by the a GM (I think Sakina?) that Conan and Shinichi are 2 roles. So if you are Conan, Bourbon/Okiya need to look for Conan. And if they ask for Shinichi, they'll get a "false".
Sherry should be Haibara or better, the shrunken scientist. So Vermouth can't disguise as a kid (DB, Haibara/sherry or Conan) But she should be able to disguise as Shinichi.

I'll stick to this for now. When the current game ends, I'll post more (Especially details chosen by the GM)

Well, some input from the BO players would be nice. For example Callid, considering he will be out of the game soon. 
As I said I never played BO. But to me it seems like the main danger for them is relative ease of the town-members to reveal their role without the BO having good choices to punish them for that. If all the players on town side have abilities even the knowledge of all the roles could not be enough for the BO even if they play perfectly.

In round 5 the BO got the knowledge of most roles, but we couldn't do much. Because we didn't have enough time to kill enough townspeople. And the townspeople figured out who was BO pretty fast. That's because investigation is rather strong in figuring out roles and can't be hindered by the BO (besides killing that person). But since there are a lot of roles that can investigate, that's still not possible.
That's why I thought about the poison ability. It can hinder to tell publicly who should be investigated. Because the BO will poison the possessions of that person then (whether it's BO or not). But with the risk of making people immune to poison.

[blurfbreg]

Giving BO more power seems fair, but the main problem (I discussed this with Chekhov after he left the game) is that every Town member has an ability. Roles are balanced now, so there's no weak role. Since the town is always the majority, the BO just can't control them all without being suspicious.

But giving the BO the ATPX would not change that every town member has an ability. It just forces them to be a little bit more careful with whom they trust. It would (hopefully) make the formation of alliances in the town a bit slower.
And shorten the length of a game a bit if the BO can kill a little bit faster.

The slower the town can trust that a person is not BO, the slower they can work together to act against the BO

The BO should have a way to better blend with the rest of the townsfolk, so they seem less suspicious and can keep on killing. (my brain is blank though on how to do so)

[xpon]

totally agree...with the aptx 4869


if only 8 players.. (5 town vs 3 BO) than it wont necessary to make BO stronger.

but 11 vs 6 and at night 3 all people already know all roles.. yup..

it will bring a certain win for townie..


---

last night i tough about similiar things. so if the BO know the name and the role.. they can kill 2x. but maybe we raised the bet..

I like the idea from Schillok that the BO can use APTX4869.
I would leave most of it like Schillok described.
So:
- APTX can't be prevented by anyone (healer, portector etc.)
- BO needs to know the role of the player ("BO gives Callid who is Araide the APTX" -> dies if he's Araide the next phase. Doesn't die if he's not)

I would add/change:
- The target doesn't know he was targeted (when the poisoning failed)
- There is a fixed number of APTX4869 for the whole BO (so if a BO dies, they won't lose the APTX4869)
- The "fixed number" isn't fixed, but depends on how many townspeople there are (Maybe the variable: x*1/3)
- Not a specific BO member uses the poison, but the "whole BO" gives the APTX4869 (so Anokata or the current BO leader gives the order who to poison. If the leader dies, a new leader will give the order)
- Should be a Day activity. So if they target the right one, the vote of that person doesn't count anymore (because he died during the day)

if the BO gave the aptx to wrong person and role. then aptx is decreasing.

ex.

BO have 4 APTX

at day 3 they decide to gave 1 to callid. aka shinichi.
but the truth is  callid is heiji. then not only callid dont die. the BO will only have 3 APTX.. ( they used 1)

[Conia]

Being the GM made me realize about this: We NEED 48 hours Phases.

[Beastly]

Being the GM made me realize about this: We NEED 48 hours Phases.

Why?

[Abs.]

Being the GM made me realize about this: We NEED 48 hours Phases.

NO.  The Abs. needs MORE BLOOD, MORE FREQUENTLY than that.

[Conia]

Being the GM made me realize about this: We NEED 48 hours Phases.

Why?

I'll be more detailed when this Round ends, but I've seen how much infortunate circumstances have arised due to time.

[xpon]

Being the GM made me realize about this: We NEED 48 hours Phases.

it will meke tha game drag on but i guess it will give me advantages too