ESPIONAGE: Campaign Round - DETECTIVES AND CIVILIANS WIN!

[Jd-]

I know Jd-'s trying to make a strong point but this is just really bugging me. I just wanna say that the two civilian arrests that happened the past days were caused by the two people who were arrested themselves and not because "no one has any idea what to do with the votes". It just appears to me that you are trying to say that people were too busy securing their survivals that they forgot that the aim of the game is to catch the spies. It has been pointed out the last phase actually. But anyway, yeah... Both arrests could have been prevented and personally, I could have prevented Kamite's arrest...

Not just secure our own survivals, but the survival of the people we trust, as well. The comment about us not knowing what to do with the votes was more specifically about this exact situation we're facing now. We WERE overly concerned with just supporting ourselves and our allies. There's no question about that. Until this phase, we haven't even touched upon using our voting powers to directly confront the Spies. In fact, I would even posit that the two non-voter arrests on Day 1 and 2 are also part of us not having any idea on how to use the votes. In other words: We had no control or any illusion of control of what was going on with the votes.

I contend that none of us civilians--myself included--effectively utilized Days 1 and 2 to their full potential. It isn't that we simply did things "wrong", it's just that the Spies are a step ahead even if they don't meddle with us directly. The Spies did not have any overlap with the arrests, nor did they target each other. As a result, we can only try to repair this while we have the chance.

There won't be many phases left in this game, especially if we don't try something now. Whether we are ultimately wrong or right, we really have to do something.

Right now, I'd like to hear from Fujiwara. I have a feeling that she will see what I mean and help join us all in one effort. We really just need to explore the ideas that are on the table instead of trying to repeat the random votes from before.

[shinichi'sapprentice]

And we just hit past the twelve-hour mark of the day..! Wake up Europeans and Osaka Detective! Answer the question

oh... sneaky post from Jd- *goes to read*

[Jd-]

VOTING TALLY IDEA REPOST, PLEASE READ IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY!

For this to work, we need to vote in the form of +4 and +1 and spread the votes around. Even if a Spy tries to hijack this, so long as no one votes for the decided target, there should be no way for them to avoid the arrest so long as we all work together. If you trust my idea laid out in THIS EARLIER POST, we need everyone to give a +4 vote and a +1 vote. Everyone should finish this phase with at least +2 votes, but Osaka Detective should receive NO VOTES. This is not to single out Osaka Detective unnecessarily, but possibly give us a chance going forward.

PLEASE SIGN-UP WITH YOUR VOTES BELOW IN ANY OF THE BLANK SPACES STILL AVAILABLE AS OF THE LATEST POST BY ANOTHER PLAYER

Jd- is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Jecka
Iwamoto Yuri is receiving +4 VOTES from Jecka and +1 VOTE from ___________
shinichi'sapprentice is receiving +4 VOTES from Jd- and +1 VOTE from Nemomon
Fujiwara is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Jd-
MoonRaven is receiving +4 VOTES from Nemomon and +1 VOTE from ___________
Jecka is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Jellitto is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Raifuujin is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Nemomon is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
MDavid is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
dumytru is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Stopwatch is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Osaka Detective should NOT receive any votes for this strategy. Please read here for more information.

If it looks like not everyone will respond, myself and a few others can split out +4 votes to those that won't be receiving the requisite +4 votes to ensure the strategy still works and no tie happens. If someone outright disrupts the arrest effort without prior explanation, well, that's obviously not good.

You are, of course, completely free to disagree with me. Please acknowledge, however, that we do not have much time to lose and if we lose another 3 Civilians (and likely a Detective) without any direction, we may not have any chance to win. Even if we get to the Lynching Rounds later, we may not be able to manage a victory simply from not having the right numbers/information. In other words...

If we do not have a concentrated voting effort like this for this phase, there is a ZERO percent chance that we are going to arrest a Spy this phase. They just aren't going to let it happen. It will be a civilian who doesn't vote or someone who hasn't campaigned at all.

[Jecka]

I wrote something and the app crashed. Yay :V

So as I said before technology ruined everything:
Jd- isn't giving me a "he's the spy" vibe, so I say he is trustworthy.
As Jd- did, I set my votes according to whom I trust. So obviously Yuri is the other person.

[Iwamoto Yuri]

Is it bad I actually think MDavid is very suspicious? He's been behaving strangely from day 1, which I thought at first was because he was the detective, but it's a tad too strange :v
Also, 4+ to Jecka \o/ (because frankly she gave me a 4+ and she's my sis so yeah...) and a 1+ to Ruujin because I can't give my 1+ to Jd- anymore.

[MDavid]

MDavid, if possible, could you answer the question?

As Jd- mentioned, wouldn't that serve as hints for spies? But if you insist: +4 to Fujiwara +1 to Stopwatch

If I were the Spy, I would never be worried about ever being killed, ever.

Even a spy would want to avoid being targeted by the other spy, because that failed kill attempt will not reduce the number of civilians and detectives.
Also, are you worried? If you are right and this strategy helps so much then you have a chance of being a kill target already.

Think of me as a civilian as I do you

I think I'm keeping the right to think whatever I want.
Of course everyone is glad when they are trusted but I don't make it an expectation.

A "threat" would be more like, "If you don't go along with this plan, you'll be next! Mwahahaha! "

I see a similarity:

Anyone who goes off the tracks without explanation should be considered a suspect in my eyes

If I have in any way used "popularity" this phase, it has been to decrease my own likelihood of remaining in the game--not for any self-serving purpose of any kind.

Based on the 18 votes you received so far (without posting something helpful at the time), you are the most likely to stay in the game for several days even if you do nothing. Unless killed.

If I were the Spy, I would never be worried about ever being killed, ever.

Is it bad I actually think MDavid is very suspicious? He's been behaving strangely from day 1, which I thought at first was because he was the detective, but it's a tad too strange :v

Why would it be bad, you are free to believe whatever you want. But if you think about it, both a detective and a spy would want to blend in. Of course anyone can cover with that. Also I refused to exchange votes because I believed that it makes no sense in a game of identifying roles. I wanted to actually give infromation in return but no one was interested.

[Fujiwara]

Alright, let's get down to business! (Curse you, Raiden XD)

Sorry about the late reaction. I saw the plan this morning, but didn't have time to think about it and write a reply before heading off to work.

Now, let's see. First off, about the possibility of this proposal being made by the Spy: While I don't know whether Jd- is Town or not, this scheme seems just like something he'd come up with as a Civilian, so suspecting him on the basis of the scheme seems unnecessary. (Been there, done that, not gonna repeat that error XD )
That being said, I will merely judge the scheme on its own merits.

As can be easily seen from my post yesterday, I agree that we shouldn't continue the way we have, since that will only let the massacre continue.

What is proposed here is, in the end, a return to lynch voting, with Town agreeing on one particular lynch victim. And that makes sense. Controlling the lynch is, imo, a good thing. We only have to be careful about who does the controlling. Ideally this would be a Detective (since he could make sure not to lynch cleared people), but of course they'll hardly break cover for that. Second-best would probably be someone cleared by a Detective, since we could be sure that person is trustworthy. Neither of these are an option at the moment, so the next best thing is to discuss possible lynch victims beforehand, instead of letting one person have the last word.
That also has the advantage of getting discussion going, which, as Stopwatch pointed out, is quite helpful for catching our Spies. Detectives a way to hopefully sneak in their results - they certainly won't be able to do so via the votes anymore if we use this method.

So far, so good. On to the disadvantages. While this system will allow us to hopefully control a lynch (self-votes are still a danger - a person who self-votes will tie with the intended lynch victim), it takes some time to 'organize' a lynch (i.e. distribute all the votes accordingly), leaving less time to discuss who to lynch. This is a real problem, imo, and I'd appreciate everyone's input on how to solve it.

As for lynching OsakaDetective in particular today, here's what I think:
She's not among the people who seem most townish to me, so I don't have a reason to oppose the lynch. Combined with the fact that it's already late into the day and trying to find a better candidate, as well as re-organizing the votes appropriately might be asking too much, I agree with lynching her.
However, I'd prefer to come up with a better plan to choose the lynch victims starting tomorrow. I have one or two ideas for that myself, but would like to hear what everyone else thinks first.

That being said, I'll give a +4 to Stopwatch. As for my +1, I assume Jd- doesn't want it anymore, so I'll give it to Yuri instead

Also, I'll be around before phase change for the (probably inevitable) re-distribution of votes to make up for lacking participation.

[Jd-]

Here's an updated list. If you want in on this strategy, please sign up into any of the empty blanks below:

Jd- is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Jecka
Iwamoto Yuri is receiving +4 VOTES from Jecka and +1 VOTE from Fujiwara
shinichi'sapprentice is receiving +4 VOTES from Jd- and +1 VOTE from Nemomon
Fujiwara is receiving +4 VOTES from MDavid and +1 VOTE from Jd-
MoonRaven is receiving +4 VOTES from Nemomon and +1 VOTE from ___________
Jecka is receiving +4 VOTES from Iwamoto Yuri and +1 VOTE from ___________
Jellitto is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Raifuujin is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Iwamoto Yuri
Nemomon is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
MDavid is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
dumytru is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Stopwatch is receiving +4 VOTES from Fujiwara and +1 VOTE from MDavid
Osaka Detective should NOT receive any votes for this strategy. Please read here for more information.

If you change your vote at any time or if you are somehow misunderstood as to not be voting this way, please correct us in the topic. The person you were supporting may end up arrested otherwise when we try to balance things out due to inactives.

---

That being said, I'll give a +4 to Stopwatch. As for my +1, I assume Jd- doesn't want it anymore, so I'll give it to Yuri instead

Excellent! Definitely no problem with that, of course.

[Fujiwara]

Who do YOU trust?

I noticed that you haven't actually answered the question yourself.

That being said, I'll give a +4 to Stopwatch. As for my +1, I assume Jd- doesn't want it anymore, so I'll give it to Yuri instead

Excellent! Definitely no problem with that, of course.

Just noticed that you didn't have a +4 yet and I could have just given you that - don't know why I didn't think of that earlier. XD
But I guess it doesn't really matter in this scheme anyway. As I said, I'll be available if anyone's still lacking votes later as well...

[Raifuujin]

*sees a chart*

Hmm.... I guess I'll do +4 Dumy and +1 Jecka.

[Jd-]

MoonRaven, Jellitto, dumytru: If any of you guys want in on the above strategy, help fill in some blanks or at least let us know what you're going to do so we don't accidentally get the wrong person.

Second-best would probably be someone cleared by a Detective, since we could be sure that person is trustworthy. Neither of these are an option at the moment, so the next best thing is to discuss possible lynch victims beforehand, instead of letting one person have the last word.

I also want to note here that I definitely would not expect to have any sort of final word nor would I want it; hopefully no one in the game would get that impression. In this case, I'd also hope that everyone understood that it was necessary as a proof-of-concept. We haven't even been able to decide on whether to even use such a strategy over the course of almost 24 hours, so obviously we weren't going to agree on the strategy--a brand new one, even--and a target in time to organize it. That definitely wasn't happening (not even in the best of times), so I put my chips on the table and put my own survival on the line to hopefully create a shift in dynamics going forward.

My suggestion for solving this selection problem is: Everyone immediately comes back as soon as they can after the previous phase ends. Look at the results, think hard, get caught up, and put down your thoughts. If you have nothing, say as much. If you're willing to cooperate and just go with whatever prevails, say that too. After a set amount of time has passed (my recommendation: 6-8 hours, 12 hours at most), all discussion on who should be arrested should be winding down (unless a big clue or revelation comes up out of nowhere) and done with. At that point, a tally should be put up for entering in which people you want to support. If you feel strongly enough about a certain player, make it known you want to vote for them to make sure they aren't arrested. At this point, you will take responsibility for them just as I or anyone else would as well. I think that's the best short-term solution we've got.

Just noticed that you didn't have a +4 yet and I could have just given you that - don't know why I didn't think of that earlier. XD
But I guess it doesn't really matter in this scheme anyway. As I said, I'll be available if anyone's still lacking votes later as well...

I think that's OK, no worries. Let's just all try to get through this phase and hope for the best.

[Jd-]

Here's an updated list. If you want in on this strategy, please sign up into any of the empty blanks below:

Jd- is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Jecka
Iwamoto Yuri is receiving +4 VOTES from Jecka and +1 VOTE from Fujiwara
shinichi'sapprentice is receiving +4 VOTES from Jd- and +1 VOTE from Nemomon
Fujiwara is receiving +4 VOTES from MDavid and +1 VOTE from Jd-
MoonRaven is receiving +4 VOTES from Nemomon and +1 VOTE from ___________
Jecka is receiving +4 VOTES from Iwamoto Yuri and +1 VOTE from Raifuujin
Jellitto is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Raifuujin is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Iwamoto Yuri
Nemomon is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
MDavid is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
dumytru is receiving +4 VOTES from Raifuujin and +1 VOTE from ___________
Stopwatch is receiving +4 VOTES from Fujiwara and +1 VOTE from MDavid
Osaka Detective should NOT receive any votes for this strategy. Please read here for more information.

If you change your vote at any time or if you are somehow misunderstood as to not be voting this way, please correct us in the topic. The person you were supporting may end up arrested otherwise when we try to balance things out due to inactives.

[Jellitto]

Okay, I'm in. I'll give +4 votes to Nemomon and +1 vote to MoonRaven.

I don't really have anything not said already.

[Jd-]

Here's an updated list. If you want in on this strategy, please sign up into any of the empty blanks below:

Jd- is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Jecka
Iwamoto Yuri is receiving +4 VOTES from Jecka and +1 VOTE from Fujiwara
shinichi'sapprentice is receiving +4 VOTES from Jd- and +1 VOTE from Nemomon
Fujiwara is receiving +4 VOTES from MDavid and +1 VOTE from Jd-
MoonRaven is receiving +4 VOTES from Nemomon and +1 VOTE from Jellitto
Jecka is receiving +4 VOTES from Iwamoto Yuri and +1 VOTE from Raifuujin
Jellitto is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
Raifuujin is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from Iwamoto Yuri
Nemomon is receiving +4 VOTES from Jellitto and +1 VOTE from ___________
MDavid is receiving +4 VOTES from ___________ and +1 VOTE from ___________
dumytru is receiving +4 VOTES from Raifuujin and +1 VOTE from ___________
Stopwatch is receiving +4 VOTES from Fujiwara and +1 VOTE from MDavid
Osaka Detective should NOT receive any votes for this strategy. Please read here for more information.

If you change your vote at any time or if you are somehow misunderstood as to not be voting this way, please correct us in the topic. The person you were supporting may end up arrested otherwise when we try to balance things out due to inactives.

[dumytru]

Editing done. Everything's okay.

First I gotta say sorry for being inactive. I've been reading all post, but I was to busy to reply.
I am currently having mid-terms and I'm busier than I ever expected.
I have a couple of things to say, and hopefully I'll start thinking about it more as I'll be writing things down.

---

If I were the Spy, I would never be worried about ever being killed, ever.

Even a spy would want to avoid being targeted by the other spy, because that failed kill attempt will not reduce the number of civilians and detectives.
Also, are you worried? If you are right and this strategy helps so much then you have a chance of being a kill target already.

For spies and informants from previous rounds, it's obvious... wait, it's not!
I think people who were spies and informants in previous rounds can be trusted a little more, up to a certain degree.

I just realised, but as a Spy I wanted to kill the Detective and avoid killing civilians. I was almost lynched because there weren't many civilians left in the game.

If I were a spy I would carefully chose my targets, and I would possibly choose not to kill.
I'd totally do that and then start theories about why the spy didn't killed, or if they found eachother's identity (I wouldn't kill D1 and D3, or something like that).

Anyway, it's pretty bad, for the spies, to have few civilians in game. If you could stop killing, that'd be great (no kidding, really)

---

A "threat" would be more like, "If you don't go along with this plan, you'll be next! Mwahahaha! "

I see a similarity:

Anyone who goes off the tracks without explanation should be considered a suspect in my eyes

No, there's no similarity. That's no threat. It's a heads-up.

---

Now, let's see. First off, about the possibility of this proposal being made by the Spy: While I don't know whether Jd- is Town or not, this scheme seems just like something he'd come up with as a Civilian, so suspecting him on the basis of the scheme seems unnecessary. (Been there, done that, not gonna repeat that error XD )
That being said, I will merely judge the scheme on its own merits.

Yup, that plan is civilian-ish, I totally agree with you.

---

Who do YOU trust?

I noticed that you haven't actually answered the question yourself.

He didn't. Indeed. Please do so, SA!!!

As for who I trust: Fuji, SA and Jd-. (as my votes were distributed)
I also have my "Detective suspects" and it's quite different from this list (people I trust).


I'll give +4 to Jd- and +1 to Jellitto .

RMed by Jd-

One more thing I wanted to say is: if we tie, both players die, am I wrong?
If that's the case, controlling the lynch is the best shot we have (I actually considered that before Jd-'s post)

PS: I won't even format this post, I'm to tired and lazy right now. Sorry if you get boring reading this.