Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

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Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Gin
58
76%
Ran
18
24%
 
Total votes: 76
AICHAN
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby AICHAN » May 27th, 2010, 5:03 pm

kholoudsafir wrote:I wish that Ai fans are like AICHAN can be objective and not choosing Gin just because they hate Ran ;), but if you are like Chekhov and you have other reasons for choosing Gin,it's a different story  :)



i really don't think Ai fans voted for Gin because they "hate" Ran...the question is"who is smarter?"and of course most people choose Gin(even people who aren't Ai fan...)
but it's hard to choose since it's a double question actually...
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby dilbertschalter » May 27th, 2010, 5:07 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:If we are doing character intelligence regarding solving mysteries, I'd roughly classify the main recurring chars like this. The order within a tier is random and there is some variance within a tier, btw.
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi, Kaito Kid, Heiji (tier 1 has only has a slight edge on tier 2),
Tier 2: Akai/Subaru, Gin, maybe Eri,
Tier 3: Maybe Eri, Vermouth (they notice more details than the chars in tier 4)
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Yokomizo Juugo
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Eisuke?, Yukiko
Tier 6: Vodka?, maybe Yokomizo Sango, Kogoro most of the time, Ran most of the time, Kazuha, Agasa (only because he don't notice many details)
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko

Nyarl wrote:Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't, and has been on the right track several times otherwise, puts her ahead of most of the cops, way ahead of her father, and very close to Gin's level, as shown in story. Give her the experience of age Gin has and she'd probably be smarter. Just dismissing the idea out of hand smacks of entrenched bias.\

If there is entrenched bias, I think it runs the other way in your case... I had a post somewhere where I laid out all the places where Gin demonstrated he was a good detective, but I can't find it for now. Ran doesn't think like a detective most of the time and misses a lot of the necessary details. When she does think like a detective, Ran doesn't have the experience or sharpness Gin does.

Edit: I found bits a pieces of posts where Gin's intelligence was discussed. Here is what I found:
Gin's deduction in the locker room where he points out cold weather puts excessive strain on the sympathetic nervous system so someone with heart problems would never go to a rural house in the middle of the Gumna winter. He also recognized the purpose of the every trap Conan put on/in the CD case at a quick glance. Those were Shinichi level deductions there.
Someone in the B.O., maybe Gin, correctly anticipated the FBI's plans to use vans to move Rena and had preemptively set up Chianti, Korn, and Vodka with "infrared thermographers" and motorcycles to chase. He also picked out the correct van, and his intuition that Rena's return may be a trap and was too easy was correct although he was later fooled by Akai's fake death plan. He also quickly picked out Vermouth in disguise at the bar and anticipated Sherry's moves at the Haido City Hotel memorial party correctly although he couldn't predict Conan's because up until the roof scene he didn't know Shiho had an accomplice.


I don't think Heiji or Kid is on the same level as Shinichi. I would put them in their own tier, between Shinichi and Akai/Gin. Shinicgi is clearly a better detective than Heiji and Kid is usually foiled by Shinichi as well. Eri is definitely not on the same level as Akai/Gin; she is very smart, but isn't amazing at solving mysteries.
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AICHAN
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby AICHAN » May 27th, 2010, 5:12 pm

Kor wrote:
Detective Prince wrote:How dare you put Haibara on the same level as Kogoro!!!


Haibara (until now) solved only one case (if you call what their teacher did a "case").


two cases...
why people don't take seriously the first case she solved in DC(with the old woman who killed people for a supposed treasure,vol 20-21)
not to mention that she made a code that even conan had difficulties to solve...
Last edited by AICHAN on May 27th, 2010, 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Misztina » May 27th, 2010, 5:17 pm

I try to take it a bit serious, but just a bit. It is for fun anyway. <3

Girl19 wrote:It's not impressive at all. Actually, many people tend to think she's too stupid for not having doubts about his identity way earlier. Knowing how well she knows him, she's actually slow.


Eh? Slow? Well, we cannot really blame her, Shinichi does a hell of a good job in making Ran thinking that he is not Conan, I mean the Desperate Revival scene, where Conan and Shinichi were together would have been convincing for anybody.

Girl19 wrote:Weren't various BO members sent to Shinichi's house to check if he's really dead or not?


So what of it? By that time, Shinichi could have told the police/anybody everything already if he weren't shrunk and stuff. *thinks* He did tell everything to Agasa.
By the way, checking out teh house was also not the brightes thing to do. What if Shinichi's aprent went home and lived there for a few days. Would they think Shinichi is still alive?
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 27th, 2010, 5:24 pm

re:Girl19
Haibara has been in plenty of cases. If she has more detective ability, she would have been using it, hence my choosing tier 4. Haibara is good, evidenced by her deduction about the potential targeting of trains in the Matsuda redux case. However, Haibara definitely isn't up there with Gin and Akai though. She might be if she had more experience and a detective bent like Shinichi, but she couldn't solve the red, white and yellow case or the Ikkaku rock case, vs. Subaru/Akai although she quickly followed along with Conan's logic. She also failed to come up with a good strategy of her own to try to outwit Vermouth during that arc's climax which is why I place her below Vermouth. Haibara is plenty intelligent and also decently case intelligent, just not as case intelligent as Akai - and Vermouth in my opinion.

I probably don't give Yukiko enough credit. I remember her mostly for leeching off of Shinichi's and Yuusaku's deductions although she did notice she was being tailed in the prescreening case.

dilbertschalter wrote:I don't think Heiji or Kid is on the same level as Shinichi. I would put them in their own tier, between Shinichi and Akai/Gin. Shinicgi is clearly a better detective than Heiji and Kid is usually foiled by Shinichi as well. Eri is definitely not on the same level as Akai/Gin; she is very smart, but isn't amazing at solving mysteries.

I thought about making a separate category for Heiji and Kid, but I decided they both perform at very similar levels to Shinichi that I would mark them at the same level, even if I do think Shinichi has an edge on them both.

I said maybe for Eri in Akai and Gin's tier, but I think Vermouth's level would be more fitting. She has some pretty damn impressive deductions which require noticing minor details and she does it very quickly, especially in the earlier cases.



Revised list so far...
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi
Tier 1.1: Kaito Kid, Heiji (tier 1 and 1.1 have only a slight edge on tier 2),
Tier 2: Akai/Subaru, Gin
Tier 3: Eri, Vermouth (they notice more details than the chars in tier 4)
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, Yokomizo Juugo
Tier 4-5: Kogoro when Serious (he seems to fluctuate a bit)
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango
Tier 6: Vodka, Ran, Kazuha, Agasa (only because he doesn't notice many details), maybe Yokomizo Sango,
Tier 6.5: Kogoro most of the time
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko

characters to place: Yukiko, Eisuke,
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on December 29th, 2013, 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Girl19 » May 27th, 2010, 5:48 pm

AICHAN wrote:why people don't take seriously the first case she solved in DC(with the old woman who killed people for a supposed treasure,vol 20-21)

They're too busy taking the only case Ran quasi-solved seriously.


Misztina wrote:Eh? Slow? Well, we cannot really blame her, Shinichi does a hell of a good job in making Ran thinking that he is not Conan, I mean the Desperate Revival scene, where Conan and Shinichi were together would have been convincing for anybody.

I'm not blaming her for being fooled by Shinichi after, I said she should have had doubts about him earlier.
She knew him when he was young, yet she couldn't even see the blazing resemblance?


Misztina wrote:So what of it? By that time, Shinichi could have told the police/anybody everything already if he weren't shrunk and stuff. *thinks* He did tell everything to Agasa.
By the way, checking out teh house was also not the brightes thing to do. What if Shinichi's aprent went home and lived there for a few days. Would they think Shinichi is still alive?

Shinichi can still tell the police about it right now, why do you think he doesn't?
And we don't know exactly when they checked his house. All we know is they checked the deaths of the people who were given APTX.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Girl19 » May 27th, 2010, 5:50 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:re:Girl19
Haibara has been in plenty of cases. If she has more detective ability, she would have been using it, hence my choosing tier 4. Haibara is good, evidenced by her deduction about the potential targeting of trains in the Matsuda redux case. However, Haibara definitely isn't up there with Gin and Akai though. She might be if she had more experience and a detective bent like Shinichi, but she couldn't solve the red, white and yellow case or the Ikkaku rock case, vs. Subaru/Akai although she quickly followed along with Conan's logic. She also failed to come up with a good strategy of her own to try to outwit Vermouth during that arc's climax which is why I place her below Vermouth. Haibara is plenty intelligent and also decently case intelligent, just not as case intelligent as Akai - and Vermouth in my opinion.

I probably don't give Yukiko enough credit. I remember her mostly for leeching off of Shinichi's and Yuusaku's deductions although she did notice she was being tailed in the prescreening case.

I don't think she doesn't use her detective abilities because she doesn't have much, I think she refrains from using them because Conan is already solving the case (she's not a competition freak like Heiji) or simply because she's not interested.
[spoiler=Manga]But when Conan was knocked out by KID, she did the detective job.[/spoiler]
As for the Vermouth encounter, she was kind of left out from the whole thing because Conan had put her to sleep. So I don't think it's fair to say she's below Vermouth..
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 27th, 2010, 5:59 pm

Girl19 wrote:
Misztina wrote:So what of it? By that time, Shinichi could have told the police/anybody everything already if he weren't shrunk and stuff. *thinks* He did tell everything to Agasa.
By the way, checking out teh house was also not the brightes thing to do. What if Shinichi's aprent went home and lived there for a few days. Would they think Shinichi is still alive?

Shinichi can still tell the police about it right now, why do you think he doesn't?
And we don't know exactly when they checked his house. All we know is they checked the deaths of the people who were given APTX.

We do know the times. The first time was right after the poisoning. The second was a month before Haibara showed up. Haibara told Shinichi about it during her introduction. My guess it that the B.O. is smarter than we give them credit for. They looked into Shinichi and saw that he lived alone and his parents were abroad most of the time. Also checking the house is smart: you want to look for missing things that ought to be there, since someone going into hiding with no warning would almost certainly want to grab various useful personal belongings before they hid. Note the B.O. made a careful catalog of the contents of the house which is why Shiho noticed the children's clothes were missing.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 27th, 2010, 6:03 pm

Girl19 wrote:As for the Vermouth encounter, she was kind of left out from the whole thing because Conan had put her to sleep. So I don't think it's fair to say she's below Vermouth..
She should have been planning long before then. In any case, the person who I compare most to Ai in terms of deductive ability is Sato.
Oops, double posted, sorry.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 27th, 2010, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Misztina » May 27th, 2010, 6:05 pm

Girl19 wrote:I'm not blaming her for being fooled by Shinichi after, I said she should have had doubts about him earlier.
She knew him when he was young, yet she couldn't even see the blazing resemblance?


But... she...did, didn't she? ?_?

I bet when she first saw him and hugged Conan she had already unconsciously thought of him. XD Or not.

Girl19 wrote:Shinichi can still tell the police about it right now, why do you think he doesn't?
And we don't know exactly when they checked his house. All we know is they checked the deaths of the people who were given APTX.


Because Shin-chan is a smart boy and as a kid he has difficulties in convincing the poice that he is Shinichi. Wait a minute... he did talk to the police in the first file, but they wouldn't listen to him.

Bo checked his house twice, the second time, as Ai said, was one month before Ai appeared. She said by the time Shinichi's children clothes went missing, so I assume after he started to live at Ran's he needed some clothes from home, which would mean the BO searches his house maximum a week later or even a few days later when shinichi went missing.

Checkhov beat me there. Checking his house teh way tehy did etc. was a smart move, that's fine, but it is also hopeless, because by that time Shinichi probably contacted someone already about his case, so even if the BO would have found him and kill him, they couldn't know who were aware of Shinichi's situation.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Vylash » May 27th, 2010, 6:07 pm

Misztina wrote:
Girl19 wrote:I'm not blaming her for being fooled by Shinichi after, I said she should have had doubts about him earlier.
She knew him when he was young, yet she couldn't even see the blazing resemblance?


But... she...did, didn't she? ?_?

I bet when she first saw him and hugged Conan she had already unconsciously thought of him. XD Or not.

Girl19 wrote:Shinichi can still tell the police about it right now, why do you think he doesn't?
And we don't know exactly when they checked his house. All we know is they checked the deaths of the people who were given APTX.


Because Shin-chan is a smart boy and as a kid he has difficulties in convincing the poice that he is Shinichi. Wait a minute... he did talk to the police in the first file, but they wouldn't listen to him.

Bo checked his house twice, the second time, as Ai said, was one month before Ai appeared. She said by the time Shinichi's children clothes went missing, so I assume after he started to live at Ran's he needed some clothes from home, which would mean the BO searches his house maximum a week later or even a few days later when shinichi went missing.

Checkhov beat me there. Checking his house teh way tehy did etc. was a smart move, that's fine, but it is also hopeless, because by that time Shinichi probably contacted someone already about his case, so even if the BO would have found him and kill him, they couldn't know who were aware of Shinichi's situation.
no, she was fooled by the glasses...yeah... :-\
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Detective Prince » May 27th, 2010, 6:35 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:re:Girl19
Haibara has been in plenty of cases. If she has more detective ability, she would have been using it, hence my choosing tier 4. Haibara is good, evidenced by her deduction about the potential targeting of trains in the Matsuda redux case. However, Haibara definitely isn't up there with Gin and Akai though. She might be if she had more experience and a detective bent like Shinichi, but she couldn't solve the red, white and yellow case or the Ikkaku rock case, vs. Subaru/Akai although she quickly followed along with Conan's logic. She also failed to come up with a good strategy of her own to try to outwit Vermouth during that arc's climax which is why I place her below Vermouth. Haibara is plenty intelligent and also decently case intelligent, just not as case intelligent as Akai - and Vermouth in my opinion.

I probably don't give Yukiko enough credit. I remember her mostly for leeching off of Shinichi's and Yuusaku's deductions although she did notice she was being tailed in the prescreening case.

dilbertschalter wrote:I don't think Heiji or Kid is on the same level as Shinichi. I would put them in their own tier, between Shinichi and Akai/Gin. Shinicgi is clearly a better detective than Heiji and Kid is usually foiled by Shinichi as well. Eri is definitely not on the same level as Akai/Gin; she is very smart, but isn't amazing at solving mysteries.

I thought about making a separate category for Heiji and Kid, but I decided they both perform at very similar levels to Shinichi that I would mark them at the same level, even if I do think Shinichi has an edge on them both.

I said maybe for Eri in Akai and Gin's tier, but I think Vermouth's level would be more fitting. She has some pretty damn impressive deductions which require noticing minor details and she does it very quickly, especially in the earlier cases.



Revised list so far...
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi
Tier 1.1: Kaito Kid, Heiji (tier 1 and 1.1 have only has a slight edge on tier 2),
Tier 2: Akai/Subaru, Gin
Tier 3: Eri, Vermouth (they notice more details than the chars in tier 4)
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, Yokomizo Juugo
Tier 4≤x≤5: Kogoro when Serious (he seems to fluctuate a bit)
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango
Tier 6: Vodka, Ran, Kazuha, Agasa (only because he don't notice many details), maybe Yokomizo Sango,
Tier 6.5: Kogoro most of the time
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko

characters to place: Yukiko, Eisuke,
Failed to outwit Vermouth? What? She was trying to avoid her all together. Seriously Haibara should definitly be at least 3 and I don't think Eri should be on there
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Girl19 » May 27th, 2010, 6:42 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:We do know the times. The first time was right after the poisoning. The second was a month before Haibara showed up. Haibara told Shinichi about it during her introduction. My guess it that the B.O. is smarter than we give them credit for. They looked into Shinichi and saw that he lived alone and his parents were abroad most of the time. Also checking the house is smart: you want to look for missing things that ought to be there, since someone going into hiding with no warning would almost certainly want to grab various useful personal belongings before they hid. Note the B.O. made a careful catalog of the contents of the house which is why Shiho noticed the children's clothes were missing.

I had forgotten about the "1 month before Ai's appearance" detail, but the bolded part is the argument I was looking for. So thanks!


Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Girl19 wrote:As for the Vermouth encounter, she was kind of left out from the whole thing because Conan had put her to sleep. So I don't think it's fair to say she's below Vermouth..
She should have been planning long before then. In any case, the person who I compare most to Ai in terms of deductive ability is Sato.

But even Conan only started thinking of a plan after getting the letter from Vermouth. And he instantly put Haibara to sleep when he saw that she panicked, so she didn't have the time to think of a plan.
And I wouldn't put Haibara and Satou in the same category, as we haven't seen Satou solving a whole case even though she's indeed very smart too.


Misztina wrote:But... she...did, didn't she? ?_?

I bet when she first saw him and hugged Conan she had already unconsciously thought of him. XD Or not.

No. She was easily/naïvely fooled by the glasses which didn't even have lenses in them.


Misztina wrote:Because Shin-chan is a smart boy and as a kid he has difficulties in convincing the poice that he is Shinichi. Wait a minute... he did talk to the police in the first file, but they wouldn't listen to him.

Bo checked his house twice, the second time, as Ai said, was one month before Ai appeared. She said by the time Shinichi's children clothes went missing, so I assume after he started to live at Ran's he needed some clothes from home, which would mean the BO searches his house maximum a week later or even a few days later when shinichi went missing.

Checkhov beat me there. Checking his house teh way tehy did etc. was a smart move, that's fine, but it is also hopeless, because by that time Shinichi probably contacted someone already about his case, so even if the BO would have found him and kill him, they couldn't know who were aware of Shinichi's situation.

Now that everyone knows how incredibly smart he is, I don't think it'll be hard to convince them.
And the fact that the BO checked his house, and twice, only proves that Gin wasn't reckless by leaving him there; because he knew they were going to check the deaths anyway.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Misztina » May 27th, 2010, 6:54 pm

Parkur wrote:no, she was fooled by the glasses...yeah... :-\


*opens mouth* *closes mouth*

Okay, I can't argue against the Clark Kent effect. :D Okay, she needed time to see the resemblance. She was a slowpoke.

Girl19 wrote:No. She was easily/naïvely fooled by the glasses which didn't even have lenses in them.


Okay, okay, she was fooled like the rest of the DC world.

Parkur wrote:Now that everyone knows how incredibly smart he is, I don't think it'll be hard to convince them.
And the fact that the BO checked his house, and twice, only proves that Gin wasn't reckless by leaving him there; because he knew they were going to check the deaths anyway.


Yeah, now. He could have convinced he police even earlier, but in the manga he and Haibara made clear why the police isn't/shouldn't be involved in this whole thing yet.

It's like, imagine this: You witness a murder, see the murderer who shoots at you after realizing you were there. He sees that you get shot and assumes you'll die. Luckily you survive. After that the murderer checks your house whether you are still alive or not. It's totally pointless! Okay, not exactly pointless, because what Chekhov said, but you know, by the time you have already given the information of the murderer away.
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Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Postby Nyarl » May 27th, 2010, 7:00 pm

Girl19 wrote:
Nyarl wrote:Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't..

Well, Jodie isn't that smart herself to be used as a smartness-scale.
But I still think Jodie is a lot more smarter than Ran. And the fact that Ran quasi-solved that case isn't enough proof.


Quasi solved? She got the culprit, and almost all of the explanation. The only thing she needed was proof, and Shin'ichi only gave her a hint about how to get it, he didn't tell her how, she got it herself. The only reason it doesn't prove anything to you is your entrenched bias.

I actually rated Gin and Haibara higher than Ran in my comparisons, by the way. Ran is just not as stupid as people keep claiming. The evidence is pretty strong if you actually pay attention to it.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:If we are doing character intelligence regarding solving mysteries, I'd roughly classify the main recurring chars like this. The order within a tier is random and there is some variance within a tier, btw.
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi, Kaito Kid (tier 1 has only has a slight edge on tier 2), Heiji
Tier 2: Akai/Subaru, Gin, maybe Eri,
Tier 3: Maybe Eri, Vermouth (they notice more details than the chars in tier 4)
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Yokomizo Juugo
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Eisuke?, Yukiko
Tier 6: Vodka?, maybe Yokomizo Sango, Kogoro most of the time, Ran most of the time, Kazuha, Agasa (only because he don't notice many details)
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko

Nyarl wrote:Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't, and has been on the right track several times otherwise, puts her ahead of most of the cops, way ahead of her father, and very close to Gin's level, as shown in story. Give her the experience of age Gin has and she'd probably be smarter. Just dismissing the idea out of hand smacks of entrenched bias.\

If there is entrenched bias, I think it runs the other way in your case... I had a post somewhere where I laid out all the places where Gin demonstrated he was a good detective, but I can't find it for now. Ran doesn't think like a detective most of the time and misses a lot of the necessary details. When she does think like a detective, Ran doesn't have the experience or sharpness Gin does.


Ran "most of the time" is content not to play detective, letting the police do their work, you can't really infer much about her skills from that. When her father has clients, though, she's been more professional than her father, like when she suggested how to run the early investigation in Nail Snake. She's also not really that unobservant, not just noticing details (wings on a snake), but making real observations, (eg, the lack of lions inside the Goblin Gang house, the anachronistic lack of cellphones in stories supposedly set in modern times like Weird Family's Request). Putting Ran on Kogoro's usual level is absurd even if you ignore Convenience Store.

Detective Prince wrote:You not seeing why it's difficult to think that some highschool girl is smarter then one of a large dark organization's executives is what is mind boggling


Do you mean Shin'ichi isn't smarter than Gin, or that he can be because he's not a girl? (Since he is a high-schooler, the implication is there even if you didn't mean it...)

Girl19 wrote:
Misztina wrote:Of course not, I'm just saying that it is impressive to accuse a kid for not being a kid for four times, it is interesting that she came to that conclusion 4 times already, while others couldn't do the math. You can exclude Vermouth & Heiji, the first one is obviously knows about the APTX and Heiji could technically blackmail him. :)
If it were other characters, they would have been already convinced for the first time and never ever would have doubts.

It's not impressive at all. Actually, many people tend to think she's too stupid for not having doubts about his identity way earlier. Knowing how well she knows him, she's actually slow.


How is seeing through Conan in the 7th story with him "slow"? If anything, she's a bit crazy for even being able to think that way. (Agasa's natural law breaking inventions give her some excuse, though.)

dilbertschalter wrote:I don't think Heiji or Kid is on the same level as Shinichi. I would put them in their own tier, between Shinichi and Akai/Gin. Shinicgi is clearly a better detective than Heiji and Kid is usually foiled by Shinichi as well. Eri is definitely not on the same level as Akai/Gin; she is very smart, but isn't amazing at solving mysteries.


Kid probably is, though only when he's the title character. Otherwise it's hard to say because we don't get to see his thoughts.

Girl19 wrote:
AICHAN wrote:why people don't take seriously the first case she solved in DC(with the old woman who killed people for a supposed treasure,vol 20-21)

They're too busy taking the only case Ran quasi-solved seriously.


You're too busy dismissing stuff out of hand to pay attention to what's actually been argued.

Girl19 wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:re:Girl19
Haibara has been in plenty of cases. If she has more detective ability, she would have been using it, hence my choosing tier 4. Haibara is good, evidenced by her deduction about the potential targeting of trains in the Matsuda redux case. However, Haibara definitely isn't up there with Gin and Akai though. She might be if she had more experience and a detective bent like Shinichi, but she couldn't solve the red, white and yellow case or the Ikkaku rock case, vs. Subaru/Akai although she quickly followed along with Conan's logic. She also failed to come up with a good strategy of her own to try to outwit Vermouth during that arc's climax which is why I place her below Vermouth. Haibara is plenty intelligent and also decently case intelligent, just not as case intelligent as Akai - and Vermouth in my opinion.

I probably don't give Yukiko enough credit. I remember her mostly for leeching off of Shinichi's and Yuusaku's deductions although she did notice she was being tailed in the prescreening case.

I don't think she doesn't use her detective abilities because she doesn't have much, I think she refrains from using them because Conan is already solving the case (she's not a competition freak like Heiji) or simply because she's not interested.
[spoiler=Manga]But when Conan was knocked out by KID, she did the detective job.[/spoiler]


Here's another awesome example of bias. [spoiler]Haibara thought an awful lot, but in the end, she didn't even get Kid's identity. She gets credit for being a detective when she resolves nothing but Ran only gets handwaved as "quasi solving" a case. [/spoiler] And, of course, Ran isn't allowed to have the non-competitive disinterested excuse, either...
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