Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Versus polls and this-or-that contests should find themselves in here.

If Detective Conan began to decline in quality, in which arc did it do so, and to what degree?

Not at all
3
21%
Conan Arc (Manga: 1–175, Anime: 1–128) (Minor decline in quality)
0
No votes
Conan Arc (Manga: 1–175, Anime: 1–128) (Medium decline in quality)
0
No votes
Conan Arc (Manga: 1–175, Anime: 1–128) (Major decline in quality)
0
No votes
Haibara Arc (Manga: 176–237, Anime: 129–175) (Minor decline in quality)
0
No votes
Haibara Arc (Manga: 176–237, Anime: 129–175) (Medium decline in quality)
0
No votes
Haibara Arc (Manga: 176–237, Anime: 129–175) (Major decline in quality)
0
No votes
Vermouth Arc (Manga: 238–434, Anime: 176–345) (Minor decline in quality)
0
No votes
Vermouth Arc (Manga: 238–434, Anime: 176–345) (Medium decline in quality)
0
No votes
Vermouth Arc (Manga: 238–434, Anime: 176–345) (Major decline in quality)
1
7%
Cell Phone Arc (Manga: 435–498, Anime: 346–424) (Minor decline in quality)
0
No votes
Cell Phone Arc (Manga: 435–498, Anime: 346–424) (Medium decline in quality)
0
No votes
Cell Phone Arc (Manga: 435–498, Anime: 346–424) (Major decline in quality)
0
No votes
Kir Arc (Manga: 499–621, Anime: 425–508) (Minor decline in quality)
2
14%
Kir Arc (Manga: 499–621, Anime: 425–508) (Medium decline in quality)
3
21%
Kir Arc (Manga: 499–621, Anime: 425–508) (Major decline in quality)
2
14%
Bourbon Arc – Pre-Mystery Train Half (Manga: 622–824, Anime: 509–704) (Minor decline in quality)
2
14%
Bourbon Arc – Pre-Mystery Train Half (Manga: 622–824, Anime: 509–704) (Medium decline in quality)
0
No votes
Bourbon Arc – Pre-Mystery Train Half (Manga: 622–824, Anime: 509–704) (Major decline in quality)
0
No votes
Bourbon Arc – Post-Mystery Train Half (Manga: 825–898, Anime: 704–783) (Minor decline in quality)
0
No votes
Bourbon Arc – Post-Mystery Train Half (Manga: 825–898, Anime: 704–783) (Medium decline in quality)
1
7%
Bourbon Arc – Post-Mystery Train Half (Manga: 825–898, Anime: 704–783) (Major decline in quality)
0
No votes
Rum Arc (Manga: 899–, Anime: 784–) (Minor decline in quality)
0
No votes
Rum Arc (Manga: 899–, Anime: 784–) (Medium decline in quality)
0
No votes
Rum Arc (Manga: 899–, Anime: 784–) (Major decline in quality)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14
DCUniverseAficionado
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Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 19th, 2015, 7:24 pm

As I've been reading these forums, as well as the ones on the DC wiki, I've gotten a sense of cynicism/disappointment/frustration when it comes to the past couple years of Detective Conan stories–essentially, I see that the Bourbon arc isn't too well liked. There are probably some who think that Detective Conan has been slipping in quality since the Vermouth arc climax.

I am interested in when you think Detective Conan began to slip in quality, if at all–I've enjoyed the whole story, but, when it comes to fiction, I can be quite forgiving–and why, as well as to what degree. I would prefer detailed explanations as to why, but if you feel you'd be repeating yourself and don't want to do so, then either provide a link to a prior detailed explanation, or insist that I look it up, myself. If it is the latter option, I might have trouble, since the search engine hasn't been to my liking–when I searched "Bourbon arc," it came up with this:

"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: arc bourbon.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 2 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards."

So, I may be using it wrong–if so, then proper instruction or a link towards proper instruction will do the trick.

EDIT (1/6/17):
I will now be including the Rum arc—any arc is fair game, no matter how unlikely someone is to pick a certain arc or certain arcs (I'm talking about the Conan/Haibara/Vermouth arcs, especially the Vermouth one). Users may select three options if they so desire, in case a user thinks that there was more than one lapse in quality. Finally, users can change their vote at any time, in case reflection/discussion changes a user's mind.

Feel free to ask any questions if you're confused by the poll or the question.
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on January 6th, 2017, 3:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Touichi Kuroba
Posts: 28

Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby Touichi Kuroba » January 20th, 2015, 8:50 am

[spoiler]There was never a decline in quality as such, the cases are always awesome and all, people didn't like was the length of the Bourbon arc and a little dissatisfactory ending with no face-off between Amuro and Akai(which was obviously because he didn't want to tell us much about scotch yet.)!ets hope the Rum arc isn't as long u.u[/spoiler]
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 20th, 2015, 6:40 pm

Touichi Kuroba wrote:[spoiler]There was never a decline in quality as such, the cases are always awesome and all, people didn't like was the length of the Bourbon arc and a little dissatisfactory ending with no face-off between Amuro and Akai(which was obviously because he didn't want to tell us much about scotch yet.)!ets hope the Rum arc isn't as long u.u[/spoiler]


Glad to know you think Detective Conan is still awesome! ;D

[spoiler]I, personally, had thought those were reasons as to why, but I like to hear what people have to say. While sometimes its necessary to assume things, I don't want to assume about the reasons, in this case–I would rather hear them.[/spoiler]
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
dogfish44
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby dogfish44 » January 21st, 2015, 7:45 am

[spoiler]It's probably because I only picked up the manga around this time last year, and I didn't have the huge wait between plot, but I've not felt a large drop in the quality myself. A few slight ups and downs, but nothing major.

I think everyone noticed that the quality of the Anime Originals dropped around the 400 Episode point, and in general they weren't that good in the long Bourbon Arc (First Half), which doesn't help it much in most people's eyes as far as I know.[/spoiler]
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gergoking
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby gergoking » January 21st, 2015, 11:40 am

Detective Conan is still my biggest favorite, but I felt a decline even before I caught up to the anime around episode 520.
The first decline was the appearance of Eisuke and it was until Ep490. Then I really enjoyed it between 490-523. Then it dropped again, it just went on and on and on, and I can't even say a really memorable episode, but here was some of the most boring ones. Then Sera happened, and since 646 I really enjoy the episodes. I feel like she was the one who revived the whole series.

So I voted for the Kir Arc and Pre-Bourbon Arc as major decline and the Post-Borubon Arc as minor since I still have some problem with it. (such as the halt of Ran's and Ai's character developments)
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 22nd, 2015, 7:54 am

gergoking wrote:I really enjoyed it between 490-523.

Clash of Red and Black, introductions of Subaru and Kansuke, and the first meeting between Shinichi and Ran since the Desperate Revival–yeah, I enjoyed those, too.
gergoking wrote:Then it dropped again, it just went on and on and on, and I can't even say a really memorable episode, but here was some of the most boring ones.

So you didn't dig Scar Akai, Taka'aki's/Koumei's introduction, the end of the Shiratori/Takagi rivalry, and Holmes' Revelation, eh?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
S.Vineyard
Posts: 136

Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby S.Vineyard » January 22nd, 2015, 7:08 pm

gergoking wrote:(such as the halt of Ran's and Ai's character developments)


Pretty much this.
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby Kaito Lady » January 31st, 2015, 10:32 am

from the episodes 4 hundred and something onwards I feel like the drawing in the anime has gone downwards ever since. That's why I mainly only read the manga nowadays. The essence of DC itself (the cases and so on) is still good though.
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Van Keiji
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby Van Keiji » February 2nd, 2015, 1:55 pm

I voted Kir arc. I didn't mind the slow down, it allowed me to reform theories while waiting for something to happen. But Kir arc wasn't too bad... I loved Bourbon altogether [spoiler]especially where Kaito nearly got blown up on the train >:D >:D[/spoiler]. [spoiler]I'm excited for the finish of Rum. I think something awesome is about to take place. ;D[/spoiler]
As to why I did not care for the Kir part.. [spoiler]It wasn't Eisuke's fault, I thought he was a fun addition. But I felt that the whole arc went by with some possibly huge sacrifices for Kir and she did not even give much information than the fact that another alcohol is going to make a big splash... I would think she would give them a little more information than that, even though it is a bit risky.[/spoiler]
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Silverbullet96
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby Silverbullet96 » February 13th, 2015, 6:42 am

The animation in the anime is declining, not sure about the cases.
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby Van Keiji » February 23rd, 2015, 12:03 pm

Have you noticed the Magic Kaito 1412 animation? That stuff is amazing!!!!

Back on topic. I don't have any problems with the current Detective Conan animation. Although it would be awesome if it caught up Kaito's.
"Courage is a word that gives you the strength to do what's right, you should not use it as an excuse to murder someone." -Mouri Ran

"Fear of death is worse than death itself." - Akai Shuuichi

"A thief is a creative artist who takes his prey in style... But a detective is nothing more than a critic, who follows our footsteps..." - Kaito Kid 1412

"A trick is nothing but a puzzle mankind came up with. If you use your head, you can uncover the logical answer." "I don't know why you would kill someone but as for saving someone... a logical mind isn't needed, right?" - Kudou Shinichi
chongjasmine
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby chongjasmine » October 19th, 2016, 12:07 am

I don't find any decline in quality.
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby PhantomWriter » December 31st, 2016, 10:44 pm

I argued mid-ranking decline during/after the Mystery Train.

My reasoning is due to the Mystery Train itself being a hot mess. (So, uh, KID now knows some very secret, dangerous details about the Org. and in his original canon he fights against a similar organization, yet we're not supposed to expect him involved in the plot at all again? Really? That both makes him even more clearly a deus ex machina and also seems off.)

Some of the stuff in the Scarlet Series also bothered me. The only way to keep some of the status quo now, at least regarding Rei hunting after Akai, would be if Rei is nerfed to some extent. I was also bothered by Conan being the one who set up all of the Clash fake-death plot and Scarlet Series plot, according to several characters during the last chapter in that arc. You'd think the FBI agents who have far more practical experience and working knowledge of the Org/PSB players involved would be contributing more to the actual plotting of it, not just the actions as pieces on the board. It comes across as "character shilling."

The reason why I don't say major is because Mary is a gem of a character. She's perpetually done with pretty much everyone and it's refreshing.
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MCAL
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby MCAL » January 1st, 2017, 1:53 pm

The quality definitely started to decline during the Bourbon arc. That being said the Rum arc has been a bit of a return to form, especially since we've been getting at the very least small nuggets of plot (Whether related to Rum or not) in just about every case so far. (That was a big problem with the Bourbon arc. You could go hundreds of chapters without any mention of plot or even romance all together.)
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Re: Decline in the Quality of Detective Conan?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 2nd, 2017, 5:45 am

PhantomWriter wrote:My reasoning is due to the Mystery Train itself being a hot mess. (So, uh, KID now knows some very secret, dangerous details about the Org. and in his original canon he fights against a similar organization, yet we're not supposed to expect him involved in the plot at all again? Really? That both makes him even more clearly a deus ex machina and also seems off.)


So Kaito being involved in that case is the main reason why it's such "a hot mess?"

Or were you just scratching the surface, and Kaito is just one of many prominent reasons why Mystery Train is "a hot mess?"

PhantomWriter wrote:Some of the stuff in the Scarlet Series also bothered me. The only way to keep some of the status quo now, at least regarding Rei hunting after Akai, would be if Rei is nerfed to some extent. I was also bothered by Conan being the one who set up all of the Clash fake-death plot and Scarlet Series plot, according to several characters during the last chapter in that arc. You'd think the FBI agents who have far more practical experience and working knowledge of the Org/PSB players involved would be contributing more to the actual plotting of it, not just the actions as pieces on the board. It comes across as "character shilling."


One of DC's current problems is Gosho's current knack for status quo maintenance, right? How things will be stretched to ensure there's no major shake-ups... and for such a long period of time.

Shinichi/Conan is the one who made the fake death plan possible—without Yukiko and Hiroshi, Shuichi would've had to find another way to get ahold of fake blood producing devices and a disguise for his new identity. It's only "his" plan (this goes for both Clash and Scarlet) because he's the one providing the connections, and, thus, the materials that make the plan work. Who says Shuichi just sat back and nodded while Shinichi/Conan outlined the whole thing? It's not like we've gotten to see them actually making their plans, flashback or otherwise.

Plus, there's the whole matter of Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi effectively making their own plans, separate from the FBI (exemplified with each of the plans in Clash and Scarlet)—after all, with Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi and the plans they make, unless you're on their level, or have skills related to a plan they have in mind (Andre's driving skills), it's nothing but need to know, until after the fact (Jodie and James in Clash), or as it's happening (Jodie in Scarlet). Even Jodie and James—Shuichi's superior—will be kept in the dark (unless discovered by accident, like with James). So that's the reason Shuichi is the only FBI agent in on and making these plans, for sure.

Though, as we saw in File 948 and File 950, Jodie and Andre knowing Shuichi's secret, now, leaves them with a better standing than they had in the Bourbon arc—Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi/Subaru are less likely to plan behind their backs.

PhantomWriter wrote:The reason why I don't say major is because Mary is a gem of a character. She's perpetually done with pretty much everyone and it's refreshing.


*Looks at avatar*

Ah, so that's how much she's saving DC for you, huh? 8-)

Off Topic
If I recall correctly, didn't Rei/Toru used to be your avatar? If so, then I guess him turning out to be an undercover agent messed up his character for you.


When she's not done with pretty much everyone, she's being Shukichi's number one fan girl or literally coming to blows with Shuichi. I was actually surprised by the latter. The former, though, was just adorable. ;D
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)

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