Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Versus polls and this-or-that contests should find themselves in here.
Post Reply

Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Gin
58
76%
Ran
18
24%
 
Total votes: 76
User avatar
Vylash

Posts:
3757
Contact:

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Vylash »

[quote="Ran-Fan"]
I don´t think that Gin is more smarter that Ran ;D –and also don´t think that Ran is more smarter that Gin ;)- both character have proof that they´re intelligent in DC, but they live in two “differents worldsâ€
Image
User avatar
AICHAN
Curry time!

Posts:
2301

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by AICHAN »

Ran-Fan wrote: Please don´t turn this in another Haibara vs Ran fight. This is about Ran and Gin. RAN AND GIN. ;)
seems like some people here like to compare Ran with Haibara whenever we talk about Ran's smartness ::)

anyway,i voted for Gin,i personally think he's smarter than Ran(and smarter than many people in DC)...
then i read the explanation of the title,and if we compare Ran and Gin about who'll discover conan's identity,Ran is the one i choose,mostly because Gin doesn't remember people he kills,while Ran knows Shinichi for a long time ::)
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Image
mangaluva wrote:
"I've built a wall not to keep people out, but to see who loves me enough to climb over it."
[/quote]
Nyarl
Lost Detective

Posts:
670

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Nyarl »

Girl19 wrote: It's obvious that the title of this thread should be "Gin vs. Ran: Who is your favorite?", because 11 people so far have voted for their favorite character, and not for whom they really think is the smartest. Typical from the Ran fans, sadly.
Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't, and has been on the right track several times otherwise, puts her ahead of most of the cops, way ahead of her father, and very close to Gin's level, as shown in story. Give her the experience of age Gin has and she'd probably be smarter. Just dismissing the idea out of hand smacks of entrenched bias.\
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: I someone wants to consider different kinds of intelligence, that's one thing, but if it comes down to who would solve a fair typical DC mystery faster and more completely there isn't any question that Gin would beat Ran hands down. Gin would beat Haibara too.
Is that the Gin who knows full well a child planted the traps for Vodka around Itakura's disk, or the Gin who decided it was silly to check lockers because only a child could fit in them after checking some already? The former one is probably smarter than Ran, that latter, certainly not "hands down". It's not like there's no evidence to compare so it's a matter of guessing and opinion.
Last edited by Nyarl on May 27th, 2010, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
é»’ã
User avatar
Girl19

Posts:
2311

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Girl19 »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Girl19 wrote: It's obvious that the title of this thread should be "Gin vs. Ran: Who is your favorite?", because 11 people so far have voted for their favorite character, and not for whom they really think is the smartest. Typical from the Ran fans, sadly.
Oi, I like Ran and I still voted for Gin. Not everyone who likes Ran is obsessed.
You're one of the very few exceptions.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: Gin would beat Haibara too.
Hmm.. I have to admit I'm not sure myself who is the smartest, Gin or Haibara.. Now THAT would be a real discussion, where both sides need solid proofs. ;)

AICHAN wrote: then i read the explanation of the title,and if we compare Ran and Gin about who'll discover conan's identity,Ran is the one i choose,mostly because Gin doesn't remember people he kills,while Ran knows Shinichi for a long time ::)
Of course, but everyone knows this has nothing to do with smartness.
[center]Image Image
â
User avatar
Girl19

Posts:
2311

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Girl19 »

Nyarl wrote: Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't..
Well, Jodie isn't that smart herself to be used as a smartness-scale.
But I still think Jodie is a lot more smarter than Ran. And the fact that Ran quasi-solved that case isn't enough proof.

Nyarl wrote: ..and has been on the right track several times otherwise, puts her ahead of most of the cops, way ahead of her father, and very close to Gin's level, as shown in story.
I absolutely do not agree, but since you seem to think she's "very close to Gin's level", then why did you vote for Ran as being smarter than Gin? That is assuming you voted for her, which seems obvious from your replies.

Nyarl wrote: Give her the experience of age Gin has and she'd probably be smarter. Just dismissing the idea out of hand smacks of entrenched bias.\
Give Ran Shinichi's experience and growing-up conditions and she'd probably be smarter. ;D Too.
Fine, if you want to play the "what-if" game, I'll do the same.
Give Gin just 1 single year of the 17 years that Ran shared with Shinichi and he'd definitely discover his real identity.

Nyarl wrote: Is that the Gin who knows full well a child planted the traps for Vodka around Itakura's disk, or the Gin who decided it was silly to check lockers because only a child could fit in them after checking some already? The former one is probably smarter than Ran, that latter, certainly not "hands down". It's not like there's no evidence to compare so it's a matter of guessing and opinion.
Of course both Gins are smarter than Ran, "hands down". Seriously, smartness is not a matter of opinions/guessing, it's a matter of facts.
But you people made this topic about opinions by voting for your "favorite" character just because you're biased.
Also.. ever thought maybe Gin knew Conan was there and acted as if he didn't?
[center]Image Image
â
User avatar
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts:
2684

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

If we are doing character intelligence regarding solving mysteries, I'd roughly classify the main recurring chars like this. The order within a tier is random and there is some variance within a tier, btw.
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi, Kaito Kid, Heiji (tier 1 has only has a slight edge on tier 2),
Tier 2: Akai/Subaru, Gin, maybe Eri,
Tier 3: Maybe Eri, Vermouth (they notice more details than the chars in tier 4)
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Yokomizo Juugo
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Eisuke?, Yukiko
Tier 6: Vodka?, maybe Yokomizo Sango, Kogoro most of the time, Ran most of the time, Kazuha, Agasa (only because he don't notice many details)
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko
Nyarl wrote: Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't, and has been on the right track several times otherwise, puts her ahead of most of the cops, way ahead of her father, and very close to Gin's level, as shown in story. Give her the experience of age Gin has and she'd probably be smarter. Just dismissing the idea out of hand smacks of entrenched bias.\
If there is entrenched bias, I think it runs the other way in your case... I had a post somewhere where I laid out all the places where Gin demonstrated he was a good detective, but I can't find it for now. Ran doesn't think like a detective most of the time and misses a lot of the necessary details. When she does think like a detective, Ran doesn't have the experience or sharpness Gin does.

Edit: I found bits a pieces of posts where Gin's intelligence was discussed. Here is what I found:
Gin's deduction in the locker room where he points out cold weather puts excessive strain on the sympathetic nervous system so someone with heart problems would never go to a rural house in the middle of the Gumna winter. He also recognized the purpose of the every trap Conan put on/in the CD case at a quick glance. Those were Shinichi level deductions there.
Someone in the B.O., maybe Gin, correctly anticipated the FBI's plans to use vans to move Rena and had preemptively set up Chianti, Korn, and Vodka with "infrared thermographers" and motorcycles to chase. He also picked out the correct van, and his intuition that Rena's return may be a trap and was too easy was correct although he was later fooled by Akai's fake death plan. He also quickly picked out Vermouth in disguise at the bar and anticipated Sherry's moves at the Haido City Hotel memorial party correctly although he couldn't predict Conan's because up until the roof scene he didn't know Shiho had an accomplice.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 27th, 2010, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kholoudsafir

Posts:
1111

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by kholoudsafir »

like AICHAN said, I chose Ran, because it is about finding out about Conan/Shinishi.

@ Girl19, I am an exception too, did not choose Ran because I am a fan, but just because of this particular area, I thought she has a better chance.

I wish that Ai fans are like AICHAN can be objective and not choosing Gin just because they hate Ran ;), but if you are like Chekhov and you have other reasons for choosing Gin,it's a different story  :)

brilliant as usual Chekhov  :) (I hope you do not mind using the first part only from your name)
Every time I want to give up on DC, it manages to bring me back, it brings me back feelings I know that I will never ever feel or live again.
User avatar
Misztina

Posts:
976
Contact:

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Misztina »

@Chekhov: I can't believe that you put Yamamura on the same level with the Detective Boys. They are smarter! :D jk
Ran is smarter than Shinichi himself? Is that what you're trying to say?
Girl19 wrote: It's obvious that the title of this thread should be "Gin vs. Ran: Who is your favorite?", because 11 people so far have voted for their favorite character, and not for whom they really think is the smartest. Typical from the Ran fans, sadly.
Oi, you seriously wanted serious and deliberate answers for that question? :D Don't kid yourself. XD
Girl19 wrote:
Misztina wrote: Ran. She has driven the best detective of Japan in the corner 4 times already!
Of course not, I'm just saying that it is impressive to accuse a kid for not being a kid for four times, it is interesting that she came to that conclusion 4 times already, while others couldn't do the math. You can exclude Vermouth & Heiji, the first one is obviously knows about the APTX and Heiji could technically blackmail him. :)
If it were other characters, they would have been already convinced for the first time and never ever would have doubts.
Girl19 wrote:
Misztina wrote: And Gin was stupid for running away in episode 1, without being 100% sure that Shinichi died.
I don't see how running away after giving someone a poisonous drug while the police is still nearby is stupid.
Oh wait, maybe Gin should have stayed there until the police comes and puts him in jail. Then he'd be considered smart? :D
Gin was aware of the fact that the drug was still an experimantal one and was made for other purposes originally. He couldn't be therefore 100% sure whether Shinichi would actually die or not. He said himself that Shinichi is the guinea pig for this.
I think it is 1000x more risky to leave a detective brat, who has strong ties to the police lying there without knowing for sure that he is dead or not.
And althought the police was still on the scene they weren't looking for anyone, so the chance that they find Gin there in the following let's say 10 minutes were very low. Gin should have been more cautious about this.
Last edited by Misztina on May 27th, 2010, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Detective Prince

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Detective Prince »

kholoudsafir wrote: I wish that Ai fans are like AICHAN can be objective and not choosing Gin just because they hate Ran ;)
What?!?! This has nothing to do with hating ran and everything to do with Gin obivously being smarter than her.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: If we are doing character intelligence regarding solving mysteries, I'd roughly classify the main recurring chars like this. The order within a tier is random and there is some variance within a tier, btw.
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi, Kaito Kid (tier 1 has only has a slight edge on tier 2), Heiji
Tier 2: Akai/Subaru, Gin, maybe Eri,
Tier 3: Maybe Eri, Vermouth (they notice more details than the chars in tier 4)
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Yokomizo Juugo
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Eisuke?, Yukiko
Tier 6: Vodka?, maybe Yokomizo Sango, Kogoro most of the time, Ran most of the time, Kazuha, Agasa (only because he don't notice many details)
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko
How dare you put Haibara on the same level as Kogoro!!!
Nyarl wrote: Why is it so difficult to believe Ran is actually smarter from an IQ standpoint? That she can solve a mystery Jodie couldn't, and has been on the right track several times otherwise, puts her ahead of most of the cops, way ahead of her father, and very close to Gin's level, as shown in story. Give her the experience of age Gin has and she'd probably be smarter. Just dismissing the idea out of hand smacks of entrenched bias.\
You not seeing why it's difficult to think that some highschool girl is smarter then one of a large dark organization's executives is what is mind boggling
User avatar
Conia
Yurikochan's Husband
Conan Shuuichi

Posts:
5194

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Conia »

*sigh* This thread became serious *sigh*
Image
User avatar
pofa
Community Savior
Armchair sorcerey

Posts:
1183

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by pofa »

Yeah, Abs. started a fight.  ;D

We should save this thread for when we find out Ran is anokata.
ImageImageImage

Superman = Captain America > Aquaman = Hal Jordan > Wonder Woman > Barry Allen > Thor > Martian Manhunter > The Hulk > Wasp > Hawkeye > [power gap] > Iron Man = Batman > [power gap] > Hank Pym
User avatar
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts:
2684

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

conia wrote: *sigh* This thread became serious *sigh*
Lol yes, although I am happily contributing to said seriousness.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 27th, 2010, 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kor
Administrator

Posts:
3051

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Kor »

Detective Prince wrote: How dare you put Haibara on the same level as Kogoro!!!
Haibara (until now) solved only one case (if you call what their teacher did a "case"). Kogoro however, succeeded on his own to solve numerous cases when he was serious.
and "smarter" doesn't mean "more intelligent" (which is what Haibara is)
Image
User avatar
Girl19

Posts:
2311

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Girl19 »

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: If we are doing character intelligence regarding solving mysteries, I'd roughly classify the main recurring chars like this. The order within a tier is random and there is some variance within a tier, btw.
Tier 0: Kudo Yusaku
Tier 1: Kudo Shinichi, Kaito Kid, Heiji
Tier 2: Akai, Subaru, Gin, maybe Eri, maybe Haibara
Tier 3: Maybe Eri, Vermouth, maybe Haibara, Yukiko
Tier 4: Sato, Haibara, Jodie, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Yokomizo Juugo, Shiratori
Tier 5: Takagi, Megure, Shiratori, maybe Yokomizo Sango, maybe Kogoro when Serious, Eisuke, Yukiko
Tier 6: Vodka, maybe Yokomizo Sango, Kogoro most of the time, Ran most of the time, Kazuha, Agasa, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko
Tier 7: Yamamura, Shounen Tantei, Sonoko, Kogoro most of the time, Ran most of the time, Kazuha
I don't agree with some of those (see changes made).
And mostly I don't agree with Haibara being in Tier 4 (I think she should be at least in Tier 3, that is considering that we haven't seen much of her detective abilities yet. But if we were talking about general smartness, she should be in Tier 1).

kholoudsafir wrote: like AICHAN said, I chose Ran, because it is about finding out about Conan/Shinishi.
No, it's not true. Or actually that's the problem.. the title's about smartness and the first post's about discovering Shinichi's identity which doesn't rely on smartness.

kholoudsafir wrote: @ Girl19, I am an exception too, did not choose Ran because I am a fan, but just because of this particular area, I thought she has a better chance.
If it's about who's going to discover Shinchi's identity, I would vote for Ran not because she's smarter (obviously), but because she's the one who knows Shinichi too well. Gin said he doesn't remember the faces of those he killed.

kholoudsafir wrote: I wish that Ai fans are like AICHAN can be objective and not choosing Gin just because they hate Ran ;), but if you are like Chekhov and you have other reasons for choosing Gin,it's a different story  :)
LOL, so is this a counter-attack because I said the Ran fans are being biased for voting for Ran just because it's their favorite characters, or do you seriously think we don't have enough reasons to vote for Gin-sama?
[center]Image Image
â
User avatar
Girl19

Posts:
2311

Re: Gin vs. Ran: Who is smarter?

Post by Girl19 »

Misztina wrote: Oi, you seriously wanted serious and deliberate answers for that question? :D Don't kid yourself. XD
I don't think I'm the one who's kidding herself here. ;)

Misztina wrote: Of course not, I'm just saying that it is impressive to accuse a kid for not being a kid for four times, it is interesting that she came to that conclusion 4 times already, while others couldn't do the math. You can exclude Vermouth & Heiji, the first one is obviously knows about the APTX and Heiji could technically blackmail him. :)
If it were other characters, they would have been already convinced for the first time and never ever would have doubts.
It's not impressive at all. Actually, many people tend to think she's too stupid for not having doubts about his identity way earlier. Knowing how well she knows him, she's actually slow.

Misztina wrote: Gin was aware of the fact that the drug was still an experimantal one and was made for other purposes originally. He couldn't be therefore 100% sure whether Shinichi would actually die or not. He said himself that Shinichi is the guinea pig for this.
I think it is 1000x more risky to leave a detective brat, who has strong ties to the police lying there without knowing for sure that he is dead or not.
And althought the police was still on the scene they weren't looking for anyone, so the chance that they find Gin there in the following let's say 10 minutes were very low. Gin should have been more cautious about this.
Weren't various BO members sent to Shinichi's house to check if he's really dead or not?
[center]Image Image
â
Post Reply