The Hobbit

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Re: The Hobbit

Postby mangaluva » January 2nd, 2013, 7:27 pm

Gandalf is awesome as a Deus Ex Machina. It's why he exists and his existence is awesome. What bugs me about the book is how it happens all the time even when Gandalf has Diabolus Ex Machina'd his way somewhere else for the time.

Seriously, I'm just hoping that Bard and a few other characters appear in the movie more than five seconds before they need to do their plot.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Callid » January 3rd, 2013, 11:46 pm

Isn't it obvious? Gandalf is a walking Deus Ex Machina! :P
Just imagine the whole series from Gandalf's POV: wherever you go, people are stuck deeply in some mess, only to be saved by you, just in time: A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby mangaluva » January 4th, 2013, 10:40 am

That's what I mean. Gandalf exists solely for Deus Ex Machina, and is awesome with it.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Kor » June 12th, 2013, 3:40 pm

I really want to like the next film (was disappointed with the last one), but the latest trailer makes it a bit difficult (looking at you Legolas).

I suppose I should come with the expectation to see a LOTR movie, and not a Hobbit movie (that's the vibe I'm getting from the trailer). But whatever tone this movie's going to have, I just hope it stays consistent.

My problem with Legolas in the latest trailer is that I can't be sure how much he's gonna be used. I get why he's there considering the story, but I can't help but feel that he's also there to make it seem even more LOTR. And again, the Hobbit doesn't have that vibe, so I'm just concerned how that will translate to the screen.

Lastly, while I don't dislike Legolas (I actually kind of like him), it's not like he's such an exceptional character. His most memorable traits from LOTR is being a racist and being a badass (and when Gandalf's not around, he's the most "supernatural sensitive" dude). That's also what I expect him to be in the next film, but that's not enough to go on in terms of character. (I wouldn't be so focused on the Legolas aspect had the trailer not focused about it too).
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Commi-Ninja » June 12th, 2013, 6:35 pm

Legolas is the Robin Hood of LotR (except... better...), but I am also a bit concerned with the vibe. I liked the first Hobbit movie, but I know many people who were very upset over the non-(Hobbit)canon stuff. It's been a while since I read the book, but with the first movie already having passed the Riddles in the Dark, I'm sure this next one will have quite a bit of stuff thrown in as well. I'm going to give it a shot, and I'll probably like it for its own merit, but I don't expect to like it much as part of The Hobbit.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby GinRei » June 12th, 2013, 6:53 pm

The redhead is new to the movie from what I hear, but it sounds like they're just fleshing out the Elves' part that wasn't done much in the book. Plus, despite being the son of the King, Legolas wasn't mentioned, so it's an obvious inclusion.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Callid » June 13th, 2013, 6:25 pm

I'm also not all that enthusiastic. Including the stuff from the appendices (White Council and what-have-you) is a, IMO, very good idea, but the entire part about Azog still being alive and planning all the events that happen to the company feels just... wrong. The hobbit is not like TLotR in that there is anyone trying to specifically stop this company from reaching its goal; all the events are adventures along the road, random encounters, if you will. Changing that removes the entire "going on an adventure" thing and turns it more "going on a mission".
It says a lot about the movie that it gets better if you cut out all scenes related to Azog :x
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby mangaluva » June 16th, 2013, 3:26 pm

I mainly like Azog's continued inclusion because it eliminates the diabolus ex machina from the end of the Hobbit that I always hated. I'm sorry, but deus ex machina and diabolus ex machina are two storytelling "devices" that I despise, and The Hobbit relied way too much on both, IMO. I like foreshadowing and buildup. Legolas' inclusion is somewhat random, though, and clearly there to pander to Orlando Bloom fans who liked him in the LOTR movies. Viggo Mortensen turned down the offer to make a cameo as Aragorn for that reason, apparently.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Kaito Lady » July 29th, 2013, 8:43 pm

Callid wrote:I'm also not all that enthusiastic. Including the stuff from the appendices (White Council and what-have-you) is a, IMO, very good idea, but the entire part about Azog still being alive and planning all the events that happen to the company feels just... wrong. The hobbit is not like TLotR in that there is anyone trying to specifically stop this company from reaching its goal; all the events are adventures along the road, random encounters, if you will. Changing that removes the entire "going on an adventure" thing and turns it more "going on a mission".
It says a lot about the movie that it gets better if you cut out all scenes related to Azog :x

I totally agree with Callid here. Specially in the "Azog is alive" point, why do they have him follow the dwarves? I don't see any point in it :P
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Pmofmalasia » July 31st, 2013, 5:44 pm

I disagree, since Azog isn't trying to stop them from getting to the mountain, he just wants to kill them in general. It doesn't really matter to him whether the dwarves accomplish their goal or not.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby GinRei » August 1st, 2013, 7:46 pm

Extended edition of Hobbit announced for November 5th. 13 more minutes to the movie and 9 hours of bonus features.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Kaito Lady » August 1st, 2013, 7:55 pm

GinRei wrote:Extended edition of Hobbit announced for November 5th. 13 more minutes to the movie and 9 hours of bonus features.

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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Stopwatch » August 4th, 2013, 11:20 am

Nine hours... O.o

(Anyone know how much extra LotR had?)
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Kor » August 4th, 2013, 12:23 pm

Stopwatch wrote:Nine hours... O.o

(Anyone know how much extra LotR had?)


Couldn't exactly find how many hours, but in the complete boxset of LotR there were 12 discs - 6 of the movies (extended cuts) and 6 of bonus features.

If we're on the subject:

Film Original edition length Extended edition length
The Fellowship of the Ring 178 mins 208 mins (228 with additional credits)
The Two Towers 179 mins 222 mins (236 with additional credits)
The Return of the King 201 mins 264 mins (277 with additional credits)


Even though the Hobbit was already shorter than all the other movies, I still think it would have been more effective if it was even shorter.
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Re: The Hobbit

Postby Kor » December 25th, 2013, 7:16 pm

Damn you Peter Jackson!

Last time I had high expectations and you disappointed me. This time I come with no expectations and you still manage to disappoint?

(Warning! Movie spoilers!)

Okay, this film proved to me - this shouldn't have been a trilogy, at all. Way too much unnecessary stuffing and filler in an attempt to stall for time.

The first scene - Gandalf and Thorin - an event that happened in the past. Completely unnecessary and doesn't advance the story. Also the dialogue was pretty redundant.

The skin-changer-dude. He appears, gives exposition, and isn't referred to again in the film. At least his stay was short.

Then we have the "elves" section of the film. This section would probably have been fantastic if it was shorter, and didn't contain a character that didn't need to be there. I get what they tried to do, I really do. Give some character arc and focus to some of the minor characters, but whenever we focus on these character arcs, the story halts and we end up with melodramatic conflicts and we lose focus on the main characters.
I didn't like the female elf. Not because she wasn't in the book, but because her sole purpose is some love triangle crap and takes time away from the main characters.
I didn't like Bard either. He arrives out of nowhere and all of a sudden, the film revolves around him and his town. Couldn't we establish that town and character earlier instead of throwing all of this at once? Arcs of minor characters are better when they are spread out throughout the story, not when they are brought in blocks.
All of the above, though, leads to my main problem with this film in particular. The main characters (Bilbo and Thorin) barely have any focus in big chunks of the film. Only when they're finally out of all the elves and the lake towns, do they finally have some time to shine (Bilbo did at least have some focus at the early part of the film). The scenes that showcased Bilbo's cunningness and courage (in the beginning) and the last part of the film in the dragon's lair, were my favorite scenes in the movie. The majority of the rest was just melodramatic stuffing of character arcs, and action (more on that in a bit). Minutes go by without Bilbo or Thorin say a word.

Now for the elephant in the room... Legolas. I think the idea of having him in this film is neat, because it's appropriate, but sadly, this film took the idea into the extreme. Sadly, Legolas here was Legolas times ten. He was mostly used for the action scenes. Yes, I know Legolas is capable of doing all of these stunts, yes he's awesome, I got that Jackson, but that's where his character ends. He's a badass and somewhat of an asshole. Oh no, sorry, in this film he also has a love interest, because obviously, that's what you do with a character when you have no clue what else to do with. Just ask Gosho.
The scenes of Legolas and his father were neat, though. Legolas had a life before LOTR, that was something nice to see, but that idea stretched itself more than it should.

Now for the action scenes, they just go on and on and on, until they feel redundant. Moreover, there are way too many improbable stunts going on. Fine, let Legolas have his moments, but why does everyone need to be a super fighter? By making all of your action scenes so amazing, you take away from your climax, which was great as well, but the fighting scenes before those were still too long.

For stuff I liked besides focus on main characters: Gandalf scenes weren't too long and were pretty decent. It was a nice film to look at and had nice visuals, especially the dragon. I liked the last part of the movie and the first part of the movie.

Overall, I enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed the first Hobbit film, as in...meh, it could have been better. It was decent, but disappointing (I can be redundant too Peter Jackson).
I really don't think it was a good movie, though.
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