The Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Conan-chandesune]

Meh.  I'll still see Guardians, if nothing else for RDJ, but it certainly isn't anything to get hyped for.  Bunch of no name heroes, which Marvel even acknowledged by putting Iron Man in to entice viewers.

C'mon, a movie can be successful without a big name character also. And the series was fun, even if it wasnt selling.

[Jd-]

Massive Spoiler. Massive. I am sorry.
[spoiler]   At the end of Avengers 2, The Hulk is going to be sent to space. This is either in the third act or, possibly, after the credits.
   It will be the Movieverse version of The Illuminati who do this. And they’ll do it because they deem The Hulk a terrible threat – so expect to see how and why he’s so dangerous.
   Then, in Phase 3, this will be paid off with The Hulk’s standalone movie, adapting Planet Hulk. This was Greg Pak’s comics story in which The Hulk becomes a gladiator and then a King on an alien planet.
   The Hulk will then return to earth for Avengers 3 which will draw on World War Hulk, another Pak run which sees Big Green coming back for revenge after his banishment.[/spoiler]

Being familiar with those storylines to a small extent, I expected something along those lines when Feige said there wouldn't be...

[spoiler]a solo Hulk movie until after The Avengers 2. The original Hulk movie (which is quite stellar and is even better all these years later on a rewatch as I learned the other day) kind of did all we needed from a solo Hulk picture without a major setting change.[/spoiler]

Now, I'm not very familiar with comic storylines, especially not to any sort of scholarly degree, but I did have an idea for something that I've been meaning to post. Forgive me if this has been mentioned or hypothesized elsewhere as I haven't been very active in the fandom.

[spoiler=Theory about an older cameo...]A lot of people (including RDJ himself) noted that the scene added to The Incredible Hulk with Tony Stark visiting Thunderbolt Ross ended up not fitting the continuity in a warm and cozy way, which is understandable since they had done it as a last-minute thing and weren't sure where The Avengers would go exactly (the actual dialogue was improvised, according to William Hurt, Ross's actor). Of course, in the eventual Avengers film in 2012, General Ross was nowhere to be found (which isn't a plothole or anything, it just made that original stinger seem a bit pointless). But... when I saw it again... I realized something: What if "the team" Stark was talking about there wasn't the "Avengers Initiative" at all? What if, instead, it was actually "the team" that he was helping put together to get rid of the Hulk after some tragedy to come where he's deemed too dangerous for the planet?

Nowhere in the original segment does Stark make any reference to the time period or use the word "Avengers". For all we know, that scene could have taken place after The Avengers 2 and could be him visiting a down-and-out Ross who is a beaten man after so many failures in apprehending the Hulk. Now, presumably after the Hulk has decimated some place or killed thousands, the Illuminati--including Stark--are seeking out people from every branch of government and the like that they can to ensure their operation of getting rid of the Hulk is successful. Given Ross's history with the Hulk and Banner, I think he'd be pretty up for about anything.

I had heard about the Planet Hulk and World War Hulk storylines some time ago and for some reason that idea just suddenly hit me while trying to reason through how that scene could be integrated back into the franchise. (If Kevin Feige and team had actually intended that bit of misdirection all along, that is definitely a genius move on their part, unlikely as it may be.) Having the Hulk as a bad guy in The Avengers 3 is way too big of an opportunity to just dismiss, and with Mark Ruffalo's stellar performance and the great interplay he's had with everyone else... Yeah, I think I am down for this.[/spoiler]

Any thoughts on this? Am I really late to the party in bringing this to the table?

[Conan-chandesune]

Massive Spoiler. Massive. I am sorry.
[spoiler]    At the end of Avengers 2, The Hulk is going to be sent to space. This is either in the third act or, possibly, after the credits.
    It will be the Movieverse version of The Illuminati who do this. And they’ll do it because they deem The Hulk a terrible threat – so expect to see how and why he’s so dangerous.
    Then, in Phase 3, this will be paid off with The Hulk’s standalone movie, adapting Planet Hulk. This was Greg Pak’s comics story in which The Hulk becomes a gladiator and then a King on an alien planet.
    The Hulk will then return to earth for Avengers 3 which will draw on World War Hulk, another Pak run which sees Big Green coming back for revenge after his banishment.[/spoiler]

Being familiar with those storylines to a small extent, I expected something along those lines when Feige said there wouldn't be...

[spoiler]a solo Hulk movie until after The Avengers 2. The original Hulk movie (which is quite stellar and is even better all these years later on a rewatch as I learned the other day) kind of did all we needed from a solo Hulk picture without a major setting change.[/spoiler]

Now, I'm not very familiar with comic storylines, especially not to any sort of scholarly degree, but I did have an idea for something that I've been meaning to post. Forgive me if this has been mentioned or hypothesized elsewhere as I haven't been very active in the fandom.

[spoiler=Theory about an older cameo...]A lot of people (including RDJ himself) noted that the scene added to The Incredible Hulk with Tony Stark visiting Thunderbolt Ross ended up not fitting the continuity in a warm and cozy way, which is understandable since they had done it as a last-minute thing and weren't sure where The Avengers would go exactly (the actual dialogue was improvised, according to William Hurt, Ross's actor). Of course, in the eventual Avengers film in 2012, General Ross was nowhere to be found (which isn't a plothole or anything, it just made that original stinger seem a bit pointless). But... when I saw it again... I realized something: What if "the team" Stark was talking about there wasn't the "Avengers Initiative" at all? What if, instead, it was actually "the team" that he was helping put together to get rid of the Hulk after some tragedy to come where he's deemed too dangerous for the planet?

Nowhere in the original segment does Stark make any reference to the time period or use the word "Avengers". For all we know, that scene could have taken place after The Avengers 2 and could be him visiting a down-and-out Ross who is a beaten man after so many failures in apprehending the Hulk. Now, presumably after the Hulk has decimated some place or killed thousands, the Illuminati--including Stark--are seeking out people from every branch of government and the like that they can to ensure their operation of getting rid of the Hulk is successful. Given Ross's history with the Hulk and Banner, I think he'd be pretty up for about anything.

I had heard about the Planet Hulk and World War Hulk storylines some time ago and for some reason that idea just suddenly hit me while trying to reason through how that scene could be integrated back into the franchise. (If Kevin Feige and team had actually intended that bit of misdirection all along, that is definitely a genius move on their part, unlikely as it may be.) Having the Hulk as a bad guy in The Avengers 3 is way too big of an opportunity to just dismiss, and with Mark Ruffalo's stellar performance and the great interplay he's had with everyone else... Yeah, I think I am down for this.[/spoiler]

Any thoughts on this? Am I really late to the party in bringing this to the table?

The incredible hulk is stellar and underrated. About the cameo, i think that, yes, it might be integrated in that way, but there may be other ways of going about it. For example... RED TEAM.

[mangaluva]

One of the Phil Coulson shorts indicates that the SHIELD council had wanted the Abomination for the Avengers and SHIELD had been obligated to ask General Ross to release him. Coulson and Sitwell specifically picked Stark to send because he knew that Stark would offend Ross so badly that Ross would refuse.

Here's the oneshot in question, The Consultant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMt0qTZDuU

[spoiler]I would be interested in a Planet Hulk movie, but it kinda makes me sad to think of what will have to happen to make the movieverse Avengers blast Hulk into space. The movies have a much tighter character arc of Banner learning to accept and control the Hulk, and Avengers makes a point of showing that, by the end of the movie, the other five members like and trust Banner a lot, particularly Tony, but to the best of my (admittedly skimpy) comic book knowledge Banner's never really had anything like that kind of trust, or generally that kind of control. Either something terrible's going to have to happen that will destroy the others' trust in him, or he'd have to be blasted into space by some other agency... Cosmic Cube shenanigans, perhaps?[/spoiler]

[GinRei]

C'mon, a movie can be successful without a big name character also. And the series was fun, even if it wasnt selling.

Not saying it won't be successful, just saying not feeling any hype about it.

As for Hulk, never saw the second movie.  First was so bad I didn't care to even chance it.  I'll stick with pretending Avengers was his "true" debut, like Hawkeye (despite a cameo in Thor).

Also:
[spoiler]Captain America better not be part of the Illuminati.  That group's full of egotist jerks, which 616 Cap is not.[/spoiler]

[mangaluva]

The 2008 movie was better than the 2003, but that's not exactly setting the bar high and frankly Liv Tyler's Betty annoys the living crap out of me. She spends the whole movie with this breathy voice like she's five years old. Edward Norton's not bad, but he isn't as good as Mark Ruffalo. What Ruffalo manages to do is make us care about Banner as much as the Hulk; with Norton, you really just want him to turn into the Hulk and smash stuff already because Banner is just not interesting.

I'd say download the soundtrack, because I love the music, but the movie is missable.

[Conan-chandesune]

One of the Phil Coulson shorts indicates that the SHIELD council had wanted the Abomination for the Avengers and SHIELD had been obligated to ask General Ross to release him. Coulson and Sitwell specifically picked Stark to send because he knew that Stark would offend Ross so badly that Ross would refuse.

Here's the oneshot in question, The Consultant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMt0qTZDuU

[spoiler]I would be interested in a Planet Hulk movie, but it kinda makes me sad to think of what will have to happen to make the movieverse Avengers blast Hulk into space. The movies have a much tighter character arc of Banner learning to accept and control the Hulk, and Avengers makes a point of showing that, by the end of the movie, the other five members like and trust Banner a lot, particularly Tony, but to the best of my (admittedly skimpy) comic book knowledge Banner's never really had anything like that kind of trust, or generally that kind of control. Either something terrible's going to have to happen that will destroy the others' trust in him, or he'd have to be blasted into space by some other agency... Cosmic Cube shenanigans, perhaps?[/spoiler]

A probable answer is that like the 616 version, thanos will probably be able to influence the hulk and he will do something when he is, at the very least partially, in control. Also, didnt anyone get the RED reference?? If WWHulk will happen then the post credit scne could be interpreted in a different way.....

[Jd-]

One of the Phil Coulson shorts indicates that the SHIELD council had wanted the Abomination for the Avengers and SHIELD had been obligated to ask General Ross to release him. Coulson and Sitwell specifically picked Stark to send because he knew that Stark would offend Ross so badly that Ross would refuse.

Here's the oneshot in question, The Consultant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMt0qTZDuU

[spoiler]I would be interested in a Planet Hulk movie, but it kinda makes me sad to think of what will have to happen to make the movieverse Avengers blast Hulk into space. The movies have a much tighter character arc of Banner learning to accept and control the Hulk, and Avengers makes a point of showing that, by the end of the movie, the other five members like and trust Banner a lot, particularly Tony, but to the best of my (admittedly skimpy) comic book knowledge Banner's never really had anything like that kind of trust, or generally that kind of control. Either something terrible's going to have to happen that will destroy the others' trust in him, or he'd have to be blasted into space by some other agency... Cosmic Cube shenanigans, perhaps?[/spoiler]

Ahhhh, so that's how they reasoned it officially! I hadn't seen the short yet, but I suppose that's the story they'll follow from here. It's clever in its own right, as a way to patch that sort of thing over (but doesn't have that "bigger relevance" that they maybe could have done).

[spoiler]I was thinking about that as well, about how they would write in getting rid of Banner. I think it would take the Hulk raging out after some partially unintended incident that left it out of Banner's control in which he destroyed an entire city or something like that--something so tragic that even Tony and those that respect their bond with Bruce could conceivably see as occasion to consider a more permanent solution. Naturally, this would involve the Avengers attempting to stop him and failing in the process, giving them few other options. As GinRei was saying, I think Cap should be opposed to it because solving a problem like that isn't really is style. The stakes could be upped by having Pepper or someone else close to Tony injured in that incident. I'm not sure what the spurring incident was in the original Illuminati storyline, but I'm sure they'll figure something out should this all really come to be.[/spoiler]

[Conan-chandesune]

One of the Phil Coulson shorts indicates that the SHIELD council had wanted the Abomination for the Avengers and SHIELD had been obligated to ask General Ross to release him. Coulson and Sitwell specifically picked Stark to send because he knew that Stark would offend Ross so badly that Ross would refuse.

Here's the oneshot in question, The Consultant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUMt0qTZDuU

[spoiler]I would be interested in a Planet Hulk movie, but it kinda makes me sad to think of what will have to happen to make the movieverse Avengers blast Hulk into space. The movies have a much tighter character arc of Banner learning to accept and control the Hulk, and Avengers makes a point of showing that, by the end of the movie, the other five members like and trust Banner a lot, particularly Tony, but to the best of my (admittedly skimpy) comic book knowledge Banner's never really had anything like that kind of trust, or generally that kind of control. Either something terrible's going to have to happen that will destroy the others' trust in him, or he'd have to be blasted into space by some other agency... Cosmic Cube shenanigans, perhaps?[/spoiler]

Ahhhh, so that's how they reasoned it officially! I hadn't seen the short yet, but I suppose that's the story they'll follow from here. It's clever in its own right, as a way to patch that sort of thing over (but doesn't have that "bigger relevance" that they maybe could have done).

[spoiler]I was thinking about that as well, about how they would write in getting rid of Banner. I think it would take the Hulk raging out after some partially unintended incident that left it out of Banner's control in which he destroyed an entire city or something like that--something so tragic that even Tony and those that respect their bond with Bruce could conceivably see as occasion to consider a more permanent solution. Naturally, this would involve the Avengers attempting to stop him and failing in the process, giving them few other options. As GinRei was saying, I think Cap should be opposed to it because solving a problem like that isn't really is style. The stakes could be upped by having Pepper or someone else close to Tony injured in that incident. I'm not sure what the spurring incident was in the original Illuminati storyline, but I'm sure they'll figure something out should this all really come to be.[/spoiler]

In the orignal story, The Hulk killed 26 people in a rampage in los angeles and maria hill guilted Stark into doing something about it.

C'mon, a movie can be successful without a big name character also. And the series was fun, even if it wasnt selling.

Not saying it won't be successful, just saying not feeling any hype about it.

As for Hulk, never saw the second movie.  First was so bad I didn't care to even chance it.  I'll stick with pretending Avengers was his "true" debut, like Hawkeye (despite a cameo in Thor).

Also:
[spoiler]Captain America better not be part of the Illuminati.  That group's full of egotist jerks, which 616 Cap is not.[/spoiler]

I was never much of a Cap fan until Civil war, I started loving him then. Yet i started to hate him in AVX. Stark was portrayed as hateful in both these stories, the first one being a much better story than the latter. I also liked the New Avengers' latest issue in which Cap takes a stand against Stark, Namor and the rest of the illuminati. But i think a person like Hank, T'challa or Reed would have been better suited for that role. Read that book.

[svon1]

the only good fact i know over comics



nanananananannanan  LäderLappen!!

[mangaluva]

...Awesome as Batman is, you do know that this thread is about the Marvel cinematic universe?

[cinnamoroll]

I watched The Avengers yesterday!
Awesome movie!!!

[Conan-chandesune]

Speaking of Other Cinematic universes, FOX has its own plan to copy the success of Marvel movies. They plan to cross over FF, Deadpool and X-men, all whose rights they have. I am looking forward to Days of future past, even if its an year late.

I hope someone understood my reference. Also, Days of Future Past was the first X-men story i read.

[svon1]

and whats the marvel uniservise?

sorry ive got no clue

i thought that where simply all comic heroes together

[mangaluva]

The Marvel universe contains characters created by and owned by Marvel, ie Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, The Hulk, The Fantastic Four, Spiderman and the X-Men.

Batman is created and owned by DC, who also own Superman, Wonder Woman, the Green Lantern and Aquaman (I don't know DC as well so those are the only ones that spring to mind).

DC and Marvel are the two biggest competing comic book companies and have been since the forties or something.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe, in particular, contains specifically the two Iron Man movies, the 2008 Hulk movie, the 2010 Thor movie, the 2011 Captain America, The Avengers/Avengers Assemble and the upcoming Iron Man 3 along with all other upcoming sequels and movies by Marvel.

It does not contain any of the recent Spiderman or Fantastic Four movies because the movie rights to those properties currently belong to Fox.

Unless DC buys out Marvel or vice-versa, it will never contain any Batman, Superman, Green Lantern or similar movie.