Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[GinRei]

the very idea of tiers is so dumb to me

Well, get used to it.  It happens in every competitive environment where the options available aren't 100% carbon copies of each other.  All it means is that, given equal levels of skill, the higher ranked character should win.  However, "equal level of skill" is almost never going to happen.

[ProfParanoia]

the very idea of tiers is so dumb to me

Well, get used to it.  It happens in every competitive environment where the options available aren't 100% carbon copies of each other.  All it means is that, given equal levels of skill, the higher ranked character should win.  However, "equal level of skill" is almost never going to happen.

That isn't what tiers do, that's what a character match up shows (that when two characters face which would have the advantage). Tiers basically say that if you use Lucas you have a VERY low chance of being able to place top 8 in a tourney without the use of a more viable character along with them (eg Ice Climbers).

[GinRei]

the very idea of tiers is so dumb to me

Well, get used to it.  It happens in every competitive environment where the options available aren't 100% carbon copies of each other.  All it means is that, given equal levels of skill, the higher ranked character should win.  However, "equal level of skill" is almost never going to happen.

That isn't what tiers do, that's what a character match up shows (that when two characters face which would have the advantage). Tiers basically say that if you use Lucas you have a VERY low chance of being able to place top 8 in a tourney without the use of a more viable character along with them (eg Ice Climbers).

And tournaments are what?  Matchups that assume equal levels of skill in a 1v1 environment.  Therefore, tiers are lists of how well a character will do compared to other characters assuming equal levels of skill.

What you're thinking of is something more along the lines of a metagame.  Where you take into account how likely certain characters are to be used and use a character that's highly likely to counter them, as well as do well against other characters.

[ProfParanoia]

the very idea of tiers is so dumb to me

Well, get used to it.  It happens in every competitive environment where the options available aren't 100% carbon copies of each other.  All it means is that, given equal levels of skill, the higher ranked character should win.  However, "equal level of skill" is almost never going to happen.

That isn't what tiers do, that's what a character match up shows (that when two characters face which would have the advantage). Tiers basically say that if you use Lucas you have a VERY low chance of being able to place top 8 in a tourney without the use of a more viable character along with them (eg Ice Climbers).

And tournaments are what?  Matchups that assume equal levels of skill in a 1v1 environment.  Therefore, tiers are lists of how well a character will do compared to other characters assuming equal levels of skill.

What you're thinking of is something more along the lines of a metagame.  Where you take into account how likely certain characters are to be used and use a character that's highly likely to counter them, as well as do well against other characters.

I thought you were saying: If a low tier character went vs a high tier one, tiers assume the high tier one would win.

[GinRei]

Of equal skill, that's usually the case.  It's not a guarantee, but it's one of those "place your bets on this guy" sort of thing.  One low end character could always end up being a counter to a higher character, but that isn't often the case.

[ProfParanoia]

Of equal skill, that's usually the case.  It's not a guarantee, but it's one of those "place your bets on this guy" sort of thing.  One low end character could always end up being a counter to a higher character, but that isn't often the case.

Well, that's why they're the "high-end" characters. And it comes down to more then they have to be equal in skill for it to matter.

[Akonyl]

I kinda despise the moving stages, though. Especially any one based on the Ice Climbers.

but but

pokefloats!

Tires don exits.

Spoiler:

you shoulda put exit signs on the tires too. D:

[PT]

but but

pokefloats!

Pokefloats was awesome! So was the ship (that I can't remember the name of).

I don't like the mountain or the jungle ones that scroll up and down, though.

[Akonyl]

but but

pokefloats!

Pokefloats was awesome! So was the ship (that I can't remember the name of).

I don't like the mountain or the jungle ones that scroll up and down, though.

rainbow cruise? That was decent, but I wasn't a huge fan.

as jigglypuff, I loved the mountain one because it was so good for me :V, but I don't really know the jungle one you're talking about, I'm guessin it's just a SSBB thing.

[GinRei]

I don't really know the jungle one you're talking about, I'm guessin it's just a SSBB thing.

It is.  It's a Donkey Kong level, and it's EVIL.  EVIL I TELL YOU!!!!!

[PT]

rainbow cruise? That was decent, but I wasn't a huge fan.

Rainbow Cruise! That's it! And my love for that stage is more about the fact that I can usually lure my opponent into a tight spot and then leave them there to die when the screen moves, even if they know it's coming.

I don't really know the jungle one you're talking about, I'm guessin it's just a SSBB thing.

It is.  It's a Donkey Kong level, and it's EVIL.  EVIL I TELL YOU!!!!!

YES. YES IT IS. And even more than the mountain because the mountain doesn't have the EVIL SPIKES OF DEATH.

[GinRei]

YES. YES IT IS. And even more than the mountain because the mountain doesn't have the EVIL SPIKES OF DEATH.

And, if I recall, the evil barrels of bastardtude.

[PT]

YES. YES IT IS. And even more than the mountain because the mountain doesn't have the EVIL SPIKES OF DEATH.

And, if I recall, the evil barrels of bastardtude.

I don't remember there being any barrels. But I could just be forgetting them to block out the bad memories.

[kkslider5552000]

I don't really know the jungle one you're talking about, I'm guessin it's just a SSBB thing.

It is.  It's a Donkey Kong level, and it's EVIL.  EVIL I TELL YOU!!!!!

It has Bramble Blast so the level wins by default. (of course considering the game's soundtrack that describes like half of the levels)

This is admittedly nitpicky but whatever.

"There's an epic story mode with cutscenes."
"Only 5 hours long (including the final Metroidvania style map) and not enough good storytelling to make up for no dialogue"

"The soundtrack will be epic! And epic! And more epic!"
"Admittedly true in almost every way but the constant use of copy pasting music from older games without any worthwhile changes was really annoying. As was the fact that 1/3 of the soundtrack was the same composer. (Shogo Sakai IIRC. Mother 3 guy, cool person, only one who has played games made after the N64 era.")

"It's Super Smash Bros. With Online."
"It's Super Smash Bros. With connection failures." (that were mostly fixed with MK Wii which came out ONE MONTH LATER)

I hope no game ever gets the Dojo treatment again btw as overhype is never good.



anyway random but...
Best music: Snowman, Bramble Blast, Victory Road, D/P music, Mother 3 music, Smash Bros original credits, Area 6, THE MOTHERFN SQUEAK SQUAD, Donkey Kong w/ drugs (you know the song), Revenge of Metaknight, Waluigi Pinball, Tal Tal Heights, Doom Dragon battle

Although I could just as easily say "anything that isn't a copy + paste job or the non Tetris/Ice Climbers/SMB NES remixes or the lamer DKC Jungle remix"

[Callid]

the very idea of tiers is so dumb to me

Well, get used to it.  It happens in every competitive environment where the options available aren't 100% carbon copies of each other.  All it means is that, given equal levels of skill, the higher ranked character should win.  However, "equal level of skill" is almost never going to happen.

That isn't what tiers do, that's what a character match up shows (that when two characters face which would have the advantage). Tiers basically say that if you use Lucas you have a VERY low chance of being able to place top 8 in a tourney without the use of a more viable character along with them (eg Ice Climbers).

And tournaments are what?  Matchups that assume equal levels of skill in a 1v1 environment.  Therefore, tiers are lists of how well a character will do compared to other characters assuming equal levels of skill.

What you're thinking of is something more along the lines of a metagame.  Where you take into account how likely certain characters are to be used and use a character that's highly likely to counter them, as well as do well against other characters.

Official tournaments. We once made a private tournament competition between four players in Melee. Everyone had to use a name, and after I think 100 1vs1vs1vs1 stock 3-life matches (without time) (random stages, all included; all items on, highest likeliness) we looked at the name stats. We used the formula (KOs*100)+Damage to get a ranking number, and the one with the highest ranking number won. This is probably as far as you can get from an official tournament, but I think it was fair as well, as the "random chances" one might get due to stages, items etc. don't matter anymore after 100 games. So it IS possible to make some sort of competition with the "normal" settings, it just has to be held in a completely different way.