The Harry Potter topic.

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GinRei
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by GinRei »

dilbertschalter wrote: anything involving the main heroes, whether as parents, protagonists or something else just wouldn't feel right.
I wouldn't mind them as parents, assuming they got about as much screen time/page time as Harry's Uncle et al got in all the previous books.  Though a prequel would be appealing, if only because then we wouldn't have to hear about how great Harry was in the battle against Voldemort every time his kid(s) interact with a teacher.
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Akonyl »

A question about the book vs the movie (if it hasn't been asked/mentioned):
Spoiler:
In the movie at the end, Harry kills Voldemort and has the wand. Harry apparently won just because Voldemort couldn't completely control the wand, because it wasn't his. Then Ron/Hermione ask "then whose wand is it?" and Harry says "well it was Draco's, but then I disarmed him, so it's mine."

So, it was Harry's wand after that. But if you kill the wand's previous owner, it becomes yours. And Voldemort killed Harry, sooo... the wand should be his anyway. So Voldemort should have won? :V?

Is that how it went in the books also or did they just mess that up in the movie?
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Commi-Ninja »

Spoiler:
It may be because Voldemort killed Harry with the wand in question, rather than killing him with a different wand, and the rules don't apply.  It could also just be a mistake across the board, I dunno.
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Akonyl »

Commi-Ninja wrote:
Spoiler:
It may be because Voldemort killed Harry with the wand in question, rather than killing him with a different wand, and the rules don't apply.  It could also just be a mistake across the board, I dunno.
Spoiler:
that seems like an unlikely rule to me, considering when he thought Snape was the owner of the wand he killed him with it as well, expecting to become its owner. Unless Voldemort was just completely oblivious of the rules of the wand, which would be sorta lame imo.
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Vylash »

Spoiler:
Well, voldemort might have killed harry, but he revived himself with that stone thing, so maybe the wand became harry's again? That would be awesome, voldemort achieving the ultimate power for only a few minutes
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Akonyl »

Spoiler:
hm, that would be funny, might be an explanation (though they should have explained that then :P)

Though, best would just be if someone who read the book remembered if this was what happened or not to solve the mystery of it being poorly explained.

also, now that I think of it, did Voldemort kill Snape with the wand or his snake? He was still alive when Harry got there so what counts as the killing blow? :V
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Commi-Ninja »

Spoiler:
The snake got Snape, but as far as I remember, the whole bit between Harry and Voldemort was the same.
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kyuuketsuki
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by kyuuketsuki »

Spoiler:
Harry didn't USE the resurrection stone to revive himself. If you paid any attention the movie explains why that is. The bringing back of people who are dead is unnatural, and thus the resurrection stone fails to bring anyone back to life for very long. The reason why Harry survived is because he was merely STUNNED by the attack (and therefore never died, hence the lack of transference of the Elder Wand's ownership). All Voldemort did was kill his own horcrux. In his revival he took Harry's blood, which lead to a quite obscure connection to the old magic that his mother initially protected him. It is as if the love and blood hampered Voldemort's curse. If that makes any sense what so ever.
As for the final scene, I really wish the movie would have explained WHY Harry won better. Because as I recall, the anticlimax was due to the Elder Wand rebounded its own curse. In the movie it looked like Harry did the killing instead of Voldemort's wand basically killing Voldemort instead of Harry. This is however a point of contention of mine in the books because Rowling made it a point to say that it was Lily's love that saved him again, but then the wand was already Harry's so it should have rebounded or refused to work to kill its true master.
Also the movie changed the ending for Elder Wand. The books had him return it to the tomb of Dumbledore, which I feel is far more poignant.
Also I'd have liked the movie go more into the epilogue and showed what became of the group.
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Stopwatch »

Spoiler:
Huh? And here I was certain that Advada Kedavra was a killing curse ::). I think I agree with the rest of what you say though, just not the bit about Harry not dying ... though (and I may be getting this wrong since it's been a while since I read the book) I thought that what happened with the Elder wand was that as Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders that meant that he'd essentially defeated himself and that meant that the Elder wand no longer belonged to anyone living as Dumbledore was dead... or was it something to do with the fact Dumbledore was gonna die anyway within a year...? Like I said before though, as it's been ages since I read it I'm probably getting this mixed up with a dream...  :-\
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by dilbertschalter »

Stopwatch wrote:
Spoiler:
Huh? And here I was certain that Advada Kedavra was a killing curse ::). I think I agree with the rest of what you say though, just not the bit about Harry not dying ... though (and I may be getting this wrong since it's been a while since I read the book) I thought that what happened with the Elder wand was that as Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders that meant that he'd essentially defeated himself and that meant that the Elder wand no longer belonged to anyone living as Dumbledore was dead... or was it something to do with the fact Dumbledore was gonna die anyway within a year...? Like I said before though, as it's been ages since I read it I'm probably getting this mixed up with a dream...  :-\
Spoiler:
i think by stunned he meant shocked and disoriented, not as in the spell (hence why he didn't instantly wake up). as for the elder wand- it went to malfoy, then harry won it from him. voldemort didn't actually beat harry, he just killed part of himself, so there's no reason it would take him as a new master
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by GinRei »

dilbertschalter wrote:
Spoiler:
i think by stunned he meant shocked and disoriented, not as in the spell (hence why he didn't instantly wake up). as for the elder wand- it went to malfoy, then harry won it from him. voldemort didn't actually beat harry, he just killed part of himself, so there's no reason it would take him as a new master
Spoiler:
Which is kind of a plothole in and of itself.  If merely disarming someone counts as a win, then laying them the eff out and killing part of them, even if it's a foreign part, should count as winning just as much.
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by kyuuketsuki »

GinRei wrote:
dilbertschalter wrote:
Spoiler:
i think by stunned he meant shocked and disoriented, not as in the spell (hence why he didn't instantly wake up). as for the elder wand- it went to malfoy, then harry won it from him. voldemort didn't actually beat harry, he just killed part of himself, so there's no reason it would take him as a new master
Spoiler:
Which is kind of a plothole in and of itself.  If merely disarming someone counts as a win, then laying them the eff out and killing part of them, even if it's a foreign part, should count as winning just as much.
Spoiler:
The only reason why it ONLY killed the foreign part is because the wand can't be used on the true owner. The part that was Voldemort was affected by the spell, and thus the curse only killed himself. Though I do wonder... Was he then known as the boy who lived twice? Or was that usurped by the Man who killed He Who Must Not Be Named?
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by dilbertschalter »

to bring up something a bit more open ended that i was discussing with a friend a few weeks ago: how would you rank the characters, power level wise? i would go with something like this:

dumbledore
voldemort
snape
slughorn/mcgonagall/flitwick
moody
kingsley
lestrange/sirius
crouch jr.
etc;

(the kids are hard to compare)
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kyuuketsuki
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by kyuuketsuki »

dilbertschalter wrote: to bring up something a bit more open ended that i was discussing with a friend a few weeks ago: how would you rank the characters, power level wise? i would go with something like this:

dumbledore
voldemort
snape
slughorn/mcgonagall/flitwick
moody
kingsley
lestrange/sirius
crouch jr.
etc;

(the kids are hard to compare)
Shame that all those characters are trumped by Gandalf the Gray... But yeah... that seems about right. Not sure where Remus goes...

Some character's abilities were not well documented... Like the Potter's, who were touted as great wizards but we never saw anything.
Last edited by kyuuketsuki on August 2nd, 2011, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Harry Potter topic.

Post by Kor »

Spoiler:
The whole wand philosophy is a bit wacky. I understood everything perfectly from the movie, but here is my biggest problem with it:
Malfoy disarmed Dumbeldore's elder wand so then it turned to Malfoy - ok
Harry disarmed Malfoy's wand so then it turned to Harry - ok
Since Harry disarmed Malfoy's wand, the elder wand which belonged to Malfoy also turned to Harry - umm.....

The last one feels really forced. Just because Harry disarmed him of a wand, it also means that ALL the wands that Malfoy might have then turn to Harry?

The other thing, if Voldemort felt that the elder wand resisted him before he killed Snape, why couldn't he feel it still wasn't his AFTER he killed Snape? He's not such a great villain.
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